United Airlines

[chppr5]

I'm in agreement with our chairman completely. I don't agree with the UAL guys trying to overlay their completely backward a$$ way of looking at things onto the membership going forward. (This tie thing is ridiculous. I wear a pin on my tie, but if someone doesn't happen to have one there, well ok) Keep the BS out of the operation completely. No JS BS or clickers or anything.

The CAL list includes names of pilots who "didn't turn a revenue wheel"...

Notice that Eaglesview is staying out of this argument... He knows there's an issue with the sanctity of the list on the UAL side... They gave him a job so he chooses his words carefully.

Hey Flop, you keep taking jabs at 570's without actually being involved with the realities at the time. Suspect or not I look to the guys that lived it, both sides, to come to a reasonable opinion. Just like modern day mergers there are 2 templates to reference, DAL/NWA and UAL/CAL, one successful the other not so much. Rewind 30 years. At the time of the CAL strike the powers at CALPA decided their game plan would be to hope the integrity of the majority of the pilot group and new hires would be enough to stand up to management and not cross the picket line. That, in hind sight, was a failed strategy. A couple years later the leaders at UALPA decided to think outside the box and go with the plan to gum up the training department and thru the grape vine tell the new hires to take the job but do not turn a wheel. Again hoping the integrity of the majority of the pilots and new hires would break managements resolve. Two templates, one successful the other not. In that decade, PATCO, CAL, UAL and EAL, this industry was being assaulted by management with the help of a labor unfriendly administration. UAL's strike was a success in a decade of labor war, hence the importance and meaning of the ALPA pin. That pin is unity, not an LEC communication welcoming scabs and scab sympathizers and ostracizing staunch unionists. Hopefully people like you that wear the pin can educate those that don't. The unity of this group is walking in lock step not not a letter from reps calling out a sub group. The pin is a very emotional subject on the LUAL side, as stated above, for good reason......Maybe Ben's message should have been " wear the pin"

 

[redflyer65]

Keep smokin what yer smokin Slick.

He's been smoking that sh!t for years.

The facts according to Flop. Rather delusional.

 

[Flopgut]

UAL's strike was a success in a decade of labor war, hence the importance and meaning of the ALPA pin. That pin is unity, not an LEC communication welcoming scabs and scab sympathizers and ostracizing staunch unionists. Hopefully people like you that wear the pin can educate those that don't. The unity of this group is walking in lock step not not a letter from reps calling out a sub group. The pin is a very emotional subject on the LUAL side, as stated above, for good reason......Maybe Ben's message should have been " wear the pin"

There are a large number of CAL pilots who won't wear the pin, or won't wear it on their tie, who were either Frontier or were TI or old CAL strikers. And it's because is such an important thing to a group like UAL that they won't put it on their tie. Because the larger truth is simply putting a pin on your tie does not make you a "staunch unionist". Actions do that, and the actions of sUAL pilots do NOT measure up to "staunch unionist".

You don't get this (I doubt you ever will) but the truth is there is something very much worse than a scab. And that's a pilot who claims to be a "staunch unionist" who preaches about a pin on a tie or claims the union is most important, but then stuffs a knife in the back of a fellow member. UAL pilots are the worst offenders in this regard, and you merged with the wrong pilot group to think you'll ever make a case otherwise.

 

[FlyinGuy]

I disagree with that last paragraph!

 

[chppr5]

You don't get this (I doubt you ever will) but the truth is there is something very much worse than a scab. And that's a pilot who claims to be a "staunch unionist" who preaches about a pin on a tie or claims the union is most important, but then stuffs a knife in the back of a fellow member. UAL pilots are the worst offenders in this regard, and you merged with the wrong pilot group to think you'll ever make a case otherwise.[/QUOTE

This is where YOU are wrong. You've been hanging around SCABS so long you actually think there is something worse. Make no mistake a union brother is a UAL pilot, DAL,FAL,AAG (pick any other airline) is more like a step brother. We are UAL pilots, we lookout for and take care of UAL pilots. My union is UALPA!!!
One last thing, because I'm pretty much done debating SCAB lovers, a LCAL pilot calling out another group for lack of integrity is comical and amusing, but thanks for the laugh!!

 

[bizicmo]

Looking for support from an organization they don't support (sans pin).

I think the dues cover the support. The way you word I can wear the pin and keep the dues in my pocket. If that's the case I'll where 50 pins, support the union 50x you, and keep the dues. So does this guy deny jumpseaters from non union companies, they don't support alpa. How about airlines with different rival union?

 

[nimtz]

It's ironic that the guy who refuses to wear a pin ran to the union to complain. Talk about backward a$$!!

Actually he ran to management first.

 

[Flopgut]

One last thing, because I'm pretty much done debating SCAB lovers, a LCAL pilot calling out another group for lack of integrity is comical and amusing, but thanks for the laugh!!

Yeah, I like scabs a lot less than you and your fellow sUAL clowns like 570s. So when the list gets re-written and they're on it, don't forget how enthusiastically all you sUAL guys supported them. You're pathetic. And fraternally, a complete joke

 

[eaglesview]

I'm in agreement with our chairman completely. I don't agree with the UAL guys trying to overlay their completely backward a$$ way of looking at things onto the membership going forward. (This tie thing is ridiculous. I wear a pin on my tie, but if someone doesn't happen to have one there, well ok) Keep the BS out of the operation completely. No JS BS or clickers or anything.

The CAL list includes names of pilots who "didn't turn a revenue wheel"...

Notice that Eaglesview is staying out of this argument... He knows there's an issue with the sanctity of the list on the UAL side... They gave him a job so he chooses his words carefully.

Your a pain in the a$$. If you mean UAL as " they" gave me a job then you are correct. CAL didn't because I didn't even consider applying. I stay out of these things because they are a complete waste of time. I completely disagree with using the JS as a tool for ANY agenda. I wear a pin. I am very pro union. I think we could do better than ALPA but they are the union on the property and I will support them. But more importantly I wear the pin as a visual statement to other pilots that I have your back. It is also a visual statement to management that I am part of the collective bargaining organization on the property.

When I see pilots wearing the pin I greet them accordingly. I am happy to see them regardless of their legacy affiliation.

Did I choose those words carefully enough for you?

 

[Flopgut]

Yes. Well said.

 

[RT8VA]

ALPA welcomed the CAL scabs with open arms under Dwayne and they proudly wear the same pin. The pin simply does not have the same meaning at CAL. There are a lot of pin wearing pilots that would cross a line when faced with losing some thing even though they talked tough for the last 20 years. Wearing a pin doesn't prove you have my back actions do. I had a good pin conversation with a 747 Lual captain the other day and I understand why he wears it and he understands why I no longer do. My friend was on the employee shuttle with an out of uniform Lual pilot and she was nasty about his lack of a pin and on her way off the bus mumbled something under her breath and scurried to her car like a coward. Have a conversation like an adult or the pin wearer in your jump seat may be a scab while the guy/gal you left behind is prob a MIGS who has walked a picket line in his past job like many of us non pin wearers have.

 

[Flopgut]

Make no mistake a union brother is a UAL pilot, DAL,FAL,AAG (pick any other airline) is more like a step brother. We are UAL pilots, we lookout for and take care of UAL pilots. My union is UALPA

Anyone else have a problem with this? So is Chppr saying a "step brother" can get run over? Can get excluded from ALPA National policies, like merger? Like FAL was, and USAir and America West were to be? Some of you may agree with him, but I'm not cool with it. ALPA has to mean something more than that... IMHO, if you use the fraternal aspect of a national union to enforce a picket line, then you damn well better take those pilots when you take their airplanes!! It's ridiculous to hold everyone to a certain standard and then have no real commitment to follow through ourselves.

Or let's stop pretending alpa is a national union and make our own? I could get interested in that.

 

[chppr5]

Anyone else have a problem with this? So is Chppr saying a "step brother" can get run over? Can get excluded from ALPA National policies, like merger? Like FAL was, and USAir and America West were to be? Some of you may agree with him, but I'm not cool with it. ALPA has to mean something more than that... IMHO, if you use the fraternal aspect of a national union to enforce a picket line, then you damn well better take those pilots when you take their airplanes!! It's ridiculous to hold everyone to a certain standard and then have no real commitment to follow through ourselves.

Or let's stop pretending alpa is a national union and make our own? I could get interested in that.

Just like LCAL treated their union brothers when they proposed 1 for 1 Cap and F/O and stapled 3000+ of us to the bottom of their SLI pipe dream? GMAFB!!

 

[Flopgut]

Just like LCAL treated their union brothers when they proposed 1 for 1 Cap and F/O and stapled 3000+ of us to the bottom of their SLI pipe dream? GMAFB!!

Yeah, we did that. Scared you pretty good didn't it? Brought your proposal right to the center of the plate. Don't forget: That was part of the process we were both participating in. That was "tough love" on our part, but we both stayed within the merger policy process.

That's something we've done before over here. In fact, the Frontier integration into CAL was done so appropriately that your own sUAL proposal used it as an example of what you felt you all were entitled to! I realize you can't wrap your mind around this, but that was in infinitely poorer taste than our proposal was. The same judges/lawyers and alpa hot shots were all near the goings on when you flushed Frontier. It was Nicalua who integrated FAL into CAL! No one who read your proposal didn't know what you did, it wasn't that long ago really Hubris/arrogance like that usually doesn't occur around professional groups. It was sickening really...

 

[eaglesview]

Hey chppr5.......Flops.......how's that view in the rear view mirror? SLI is over....just in case you missed the memo. Our issue is with Uncle Jeff.......we don't figure that out soon all your issues of the past will be meaningless.