Unions, Why? Do we really need one?

[flx757]

Interesting that after Publisher opines about declining unionism, the two examples he cites are both union shops; Alaska, with ALPA and SWA, with SWAPA. And I wouldn't characterize SWA's organizing as being "finally". They have been organized for some time. In fact, their current 10-year contract becomes amendable in 2004.

 

[bobbysamd]

Hey, Flydog . . .

Don't forget about street captain hiring, which bypasses FOs eligible for upgrading, and stand-up overnights.

 

[skydiverdriver]

Did you know that EVERY work group at Southwest is in a union? Are you suprized by this fact?

I have worked for non-union airlines before, and I will never do that again. It's not safe, they treat you horribly, and the only thing you can do about it is quit. I'm not sure why almost every other business tries to treat their people well, but the airlines seem to have to be forced to do this, except for perhaps Southwest. But, they are still in a union.

 

[skydiverdriver]

Reguarding the question on ALPA national having control over the local MEC's bargaining, it depends on the situation. During the recent Comair strike, a letter was sent to all Comair pilots from ALPA national, making it clear that voting no on the TA may have caused them to take their support away from us. Remember that we were living on ALPA strike benefits while we were out, and the contingency fund that many people contributed to, only went to the neediest of families. I'm not sure, but I don't think much of it was distributed. I don't know where it is now, but I heard ALPA national now gets it. I hope this helps you out.

 

[Rvrrat]

Folks,
Thank you all for outstanding points made; this thread brings to mind a number of conversations my dad & I have had about unions, management and the pros/cons thereof. It is good for me to be refreshed on the subject since I hope to be in the profession in the near future.
While the two most pertinent points my dad made may seem oversimplified in relationship to the rest of this thread they seem valid yet. 1: Unions, regardless of what one thinks of their actions or policies at the moment, resemble pendulums. At one end of the arc the unions are exceedingly strong; at the other end, generally ineffective. 2: The interaction of unions and companies resemble dancing and marriages; it always takes two to dance gracefully & one best be da@#ed sure of who one is getting involved with before making a choice. If either of the two parties happen to be dishonest, unjust or seeking to further "hidden agendas", there is bound to be strife.
Two generations of living amoung and observing United Mine Workers, Steel Workers of America, United Auto Workers, and affiliates bear out the fact that basic issues are not limited to just one union or industry.

 

[bobbysamd]

More "solidarity" food for thought

My dad and I had similar conversations as Rvrat and his father. I felt that as a boss my father didn't empathize with employees. But, once again, the irony was that he provided better conditions, pay and benefits than what the union wanted.

Don't forget the PATCO strike and how it ended. I realize that it is distinguished from our discussion because it was an illegal strike. The government outlasted that union and it went away. A good many of the PATCO members never returned to work for ATC.

I mention the PATCO strike as more food for thought. I know that many people will remember and how President Reagan handled it from twenty-one years ago.

 

[flx757]

Exactly....it was illegal. And PATCO may have "gone away" only to be replaced by NATCA.

 

[publisher]

Clear Up

To clear up a few misconceptions about my comments.

I was speaking in the context of all unions in all industries when I mentioned safety. If you will recall, child labor, sweat shops, etc., were part of the original basis. Many of these things are now addressed through legislation and law policed by governmental bodies.

The niche reference is applicable to companies that start and come to a certain place in the market. In trying to deal with all the aspects of these companies, union contracts sometimes lock the company into doing business a certain way. Along comes competition operating in a whole different way. Original company has a hard time responding in the market.

Frankly, you are assuming that I have a position in this and am trying to defend something. I am merely throwing out some aspects that are gleeaned from history or may spur you to think of things in a more complete way.