Union Purposely Delayed ay FO!

[X-FROG]

hjhhukhfukhkhuk

 

[Flightbag]

I don't know where you get your information, but you couldn't be farther from the truth.

If anything, the ASAP folks will have more time to assist you in your efforts to gain union representation now that the contract is done.

Flightbag

 

[Frac Daddy]

To All Who May Be Concerned, or Not:

Is there some reason why the union vote is being delayed at Flight Options? Could it be because the Exec Jet people in charge of organizing are dragging there feet so we are not organized before a buyout? This would cause the Flight Options people to be tacked on the botton of the list. I heard that if F.O. was organized before a buyout that F.O. would be merged and not tacked. I feel that tacking on the bottom would destroy both companies weather you want to admit it or not. Anytime you treat other people as inferior you are going to have many problems-no matter what you say! Say what you will but you know that there are always problems with combining a workforce weather it be intentional or not. Lets hear some intelligent comments on the subject and not just a lot of HOO-HA. Have fun and keep it nice, or else!!!!!!!!!!


***The only easy day was yesterday***

Let me respond with two points:

1. On the IBT sponsored message board, the NJA MEC promised that there would be, under on circumstances, an outright staple. Of course, the members of the acquiring company would come out WAY, WAY ahead, but there would be not outright staple. At least, that is, if the the folks over 1108 can be taken for their word.

2. The delay may be a tactic. When I was at RTA, we had a union vote but it failed. In other words, some folks that sent in their cards ultimately turned down the union. By waiting to call for an election until we are by far the worst paying fractional, perhaps the ultra low pilot morale caused by this will ensure that even the fence-sitters will emphatically vote in favor of the union. It's just a theory, but it sounds logical to me.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Even with a Union over there... without several good leaders to represent your pilot group, you are only as good as the deal that is given to you anyway.

The only thing you have recieved from our local is support. If you personally think that some sort of game is now afoot to rob you of your career expectations at FlightOps then please feel free to organize your own effort over there.

No?

Ok then. Enough of the paranoid embolisms.

The pilots and leadership of 1108 are not short-sighted like some other pilot Unions out there who have gobbled up other pilot groups while taking glee at stapling 35yr captains to the bottom of their list.

 

[X-FROG]

***the only easy day was yesterday***

 

[GerryG]

x-frog,

Are you a Flops pilot? Perhaps this question could be more easily answered by going to the Flops IBT site. I'm wondering why you haven't done that. Also, although the Union drive at Options has the support and assistance of the 1108 at NJ, it is being primarily run by a group of Flight Options pilots. I doubt they would cut their own throats. Fact is there simply are not enough cards to call for a vote yet. But you would know that if you were an Options pilot, because you would be able to access the IBT site and see for yourself.

I think I smell, the smell of a Union buster out fishen for information.

 

[TurboHonda]

Yes, It's being delayed

How can I delay thee? Let me count the ways.

• The card is on my desk at home. I’m still thinking about it.
• It won’t do any good because:
  • I’m leaving anyway
  • I’m getting my 737 Type
  • We’re being sold
  • What have they done for Netjets?
  • Etc. etc. ad infinitum
• I’m going to fill it out tomorrow.
• Let’s give management a chance.
• I don’t like unions.
• Anyone but the Teamsters
• I have my military retirement.
• My wife has a good job.
• I just want to fly
• They should have enough cards without mine.

Yes the union vote is being delayed. It is being delayed by ignorance, laziness, immaturity, complacency, and selfishness.

If you are a Flight Options pilot and you have a good and valid reason for not sending in your card, congratulations. I support and applaud you. Otherwise, wake the Frickk up!!!

 

[TurboJetCpt]

It's not paranoia, it's just reading the rediculous posts on theis website that lead to all of the potential bad feelings. How one pilot group thinks they are superior to another pilot group-it's all totally rediculous sometimes. FO has been trying to organize and apearently have enough cards for a vote! In a perfect world management would put a end to the rumours but I guess that will never happen. As I said, please try to keep it nice and we don't need to hear any preaching!

***the only easy day was yesterday***

You paranoid little monkey.

Maybe if you ASKED a question rather than ACCUSING the 1108 of delaying anything, you would get your "nice" answer without preaching. Also, please use spell check...you'll look smarter.

As for one pilot group being "superior" to another, how ridiculous can you get in one thread ? Nobody is superior to anyone else. We WERE the MOST underpaid pilot group in the entire industry until now and there is nothing superior about that. Start screaming at your fellow FLOPS pilots to get off their asses and send those damn cards in. Any "alleged" merger would go alot smoother for your group then. Look in your own backyard before barking over the fence...remember, 1108 is trying to HELP you. Got it ?

Valium. That should work.

 

[X-FROG]

Tcapt, hope that I never have to fly with you! Your anger comes through in everthing you say. I was just trying to get some conversation going. Once again you have made it clear to me why I usually stay off of these boards! Enjoy your day, I am sure your partner wont! PS:Spellcheck is inop so deal with it AH.

 

[Ultra Grump]

PS:Spellcheck is inop so deal with it AH.

Then put that 3rd grade education to work and spell correctly to begin with. It's called proofreading. You are an educated professional, are you not?

 

[FLYLOW22]

The best thing the FO pilots could do for their careers right now, absent a class date at FredEx, would be to send in those Unin cards authorizing YES TO UNIONIZE.

If a NJA/FO merger were to materialize tomorrow, most FO pilots would wish they had one in place yesterday.

The main thing a Union at FO would provide is a legal way to interface with the 1108 leadership... THE VERY BODY TRYING TO HELP YOU ORGANIZE.

If there wer a merger annoucned next week and there were no Union at FO, who would the FO pilots choose to negotiate seniority with the 1108 leadership? Bylaws to follow? Committee structure? Methods of communication to the pilot group? YOU HAVE NONE OF THESE (sans the message board WE provide to you now with OUR money). You think choosing a leadership body was bad in Iraq? HA! The Union is the tool which gives the pilot group structure and voice. Without it the FO pilots would resemble 1,000 individual people in a room screaming thier demands. Not very effective.

I don't know how else to lay it out for y'all plainer. Help us help you. Sign the damn cards and send them in or jump off of the cliff with the rest of the lemmings.

Sign the cards. Your management is a bunch of lame ducks at this point. They don't matter anymore. Invest in your futures. Invest in your careers. Invest in your families. Sign the cards and let us hand you the tool bag necessary to secure your rightful places in the Unionized Fractional Pilot workforce. Or don't... and go with the flow... get what is handed to you... again.

 

[RNObased]

X-Frog is a genius..... He figured it out all by himself and no one had to help.

Never mind that he has had a seperation with reality to figure it out.

X- Frog, everyone is out to get you. That mailman you see walking down the street, is he really a mailman or a spy sent by the union to see if you are going to send in your ballot??? I suggest you go ask him.


X-Frog, I must congratulate you!!!!!!!!!!!!! A dumber more uninformed post I have never read anywhere. I guess you don't get it. If you can't help yourself then no one can help you. Or maybe it is too late and you need meds?????

 

[JustInfo]

A UNION is a PILOT GROUP. The only blame for delays falls on YOUR PILOT GROUP. They could have had this union thing done long ago. OUR pilot group became very UNITED and got what we have been fighting for. You can't blame it on the teamsters or any local. Look in the mirror first!

 

[Hogprint]

FlyLow22 posted:

Sign the cards. Your management is a bunch of lame ducks at this point. They don't matter anymore. Invest in your futures. Invest in your careers. Invest in your families. Sign the cards and let us hand you the tool bag necessary to secure your rightful places in the Unionized Fractional Pilot workforce. Or don't... and go with the flow... get what is handed to you... again.

Flylow has the right idea. Strike while the iron is hot! You have the leverage now. One thing the 1108 fight taught this pilot group was the power of leverage. When we had it, we wielded it with great effect. Even the company naysayers on this board (who are noticeably absent now) will not argue with 1108's winning record over the last year. Tis the season for change. Help us help you. Sign your cards.

 

[ce750drvr]

Hey Flops guys........tick.......tock.......tick........tock.


Follow Flylows advice. Don't fear change, embrace it. 284 was a BAD deal. 1108 is the REAL deal.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

Tcapt, hope that I never have to fly with you! Your anger comes through in everthing you say. I was just trying to get some conversation going. Once again you have made it clear to me why I usually stay off of these boards! Enjoy your day, I am sure your partner wont! PS:Spellcheck is inop so deal with it AH.

I dont know about youse guys ovah heah, But Don't dis X-Frog dood sound like once of dem dere ASSMOLES we had for a while prior to the TA ratification?? Or possibly a blinder wearin' feller within tha company?

Oh, sorry, I should maybe take him a little more seriously...

..not.

 

[Spyguy]

Disclaimer: I am not associated with any airline or union at this time. Just a curious outsider who has been around the industry for 25 plus years.

Allow me to throw this out to all pro-union guys out there. Name one good union out there in the aviation business that is more than 5 years old? There isn't one in my opinion. Eastern, TWA out of business. Delta and United in bankruptcy and getting their wages slashed. Oh, but the Delta pilots' union may strike. Great idea...lets all strike and have no jobs. Ask an Eastern pilot how that turned out for them. It seems that the new TA may be God's gift to frac pilots, but with the airlines as they are today I for one would take job security over a union anyday. Oh, I know you'll claim that the union gives you protection, but I would venture a guess that more pilots have lost jobs that have been a member of a union than not.
I guess I felt like ranting a little after reading some of the posts contained in this thread and a few of the others. The ink isn't even dry on the TA and NJA is already salivating for more. I would be thankful for what was given at least for awhile to see how the industry shapes itself in the coming years. The TA seems good, but greedy unions, coupled with poor management have been the downfall of many great companies/jobs.

 

[dime line]

Spyguy.....

Just Lovely.....I love the disclaimer

 

[inthewind]

Hey, I love the 'Toga to Ten' pen that my thousands of dollars of dues bought me right before I got furloughed! Now that was money well spent.

 

[Spyguy]

Lime,
I know as soon as someone bashes unions or management around here the usual gang jump into them claiming they are moles. For what its worth, I am not even in the industry, yet. My family and immediate family members have been employed by various majors/regionals/fracs my entire life. Some were pilots some were not, line workers and cargo types. So, I have a little background on all airline unions. I know the disclaimer was kind of crap but I threw it in their to possibly divert the normal crowd's usual responses.

 

[dime line]

"I am not even in the industry"

Point said. Nobody here or at NJ is looking to get rich quick, there TA is not over the top for pay, but hey your not in the industry. So no I don't think your a mole, I just think you have no business here.


"So, I have a little background on all airline unions"

Hey were not an airline, we fly the people that own airlines.

 

[Spyguy]

If we are going to quote one another:
"Hey were not an airline, we fly the people that own airlines."
Wasn't one of the war cries of the frac industry that they were the most underpaid pilots in the airline industry? I am sorry if I used the term loosely in my comments. As far as me not belonging, well there are those that are fighting for this country that have a vested interest in having an industry to go to once we feel that our time is up.
I never said anyone was getting rich (not including lawyers and unions). I was just stating a stance on unions. Furthermore unions usually have only their highest due paying members' interest at heart when going after contracts. Again, ask anyone that has been furloughed in the last 5 years how much their union "looked" after them when times were lean.

 

[dime line]

Untill your at a fractional you just won't get it

"Wasn't one of the war cries of the frac industry that they were the most underpaid pilots in the airline industry?"

Yes you are right there.


"Furthermore unions usually have only their highest due paying members' interest at heart when going after contracts."

Sounds like your talking about the airlines....again....Look at NJ TA, read it, and then answer your own question

"I never said anyone was getting rich (not including lawyers and unions)"

you forgot the add "and companys" being that your throughing in a small dig

"Again, ask anyone that has been furloughed in the last 5 years how much their union "looked" after them when times were lean"

I really don't need to they work for an airline and not a fractional

 

[Spyguy]

afkgbk

 

[Spyguy]

Dime,
I was an engineering major at school and usually don't bang on people's english, but come on at least get it close. The word you are looking for is you're (you are not your). Not sure what throughing in a small dig is suppose to be...thoroughly maybe?

Now to respond. I have no beef with the TA. If you would look at my first statement, it is about the people already looking for more.
Companies do make money, but pilots never worry about some of the repercussions of their contracts, like everyone else that works for the airline, sorry frac. As pilots' wages go up, usually others go down or work conditions suffer. Not everyone that works at the company is part of the union. That may not be the case now but give it time, if the NJA union heads the way of other "airline" industry unions. It may not and that would be great to all who are involved.

And lastly, I know that there are plenty of furloughed pilots or ex-Eastern or TWA pilots in the frac industry.

 

[dime line]

Hey Spy, good for you being an engineering major, and your doing what for your career, this is not spelling 101, so therefore I don't care, you got the point

"Now to respond. I have no beef with the TA. If you would look at my first statement, it is about the people already looking for more."

Now something you and I agree on...... but you being in the Military, again you will not get it untill you have flown the line

"but pilots never worry about some of the repercussions of their contracts"

when you get out of the Military and you start flying the line, you will see that most pilots don't want the bankrupt their company,(there are some that probably do) but we do want a fair wage. In my mind the NJ TA is a very good start. We will talk when you have been flying at a fractional for a few years.

 

[gunfyter]

Stay in the Navy. Don't come to the Fracs...

 

[steel]

Lime,
I know as soon as someone bashes unions or management around here the usual gang jump into them claiming they are moles. For what its worth, I am not even in the industry, yet. My family and immediate family members have been employed by various majors/regionals/fracs my entire life. Some were pilots some were not, line workers and cargo types. So, I have a little background on all airline unions. I know the disclaimer was kind of crap but I threw it in their to possibly divert the normal crowd's usual responses.

"I was an engineering major at school and usually don't bang on people's english, but come on at least get it close."

 

[Spyguy]

Thank you steel, I knew I was going to mess up something. Now if only someone could decipher what this is suppose to mean. I still don't know.
"you forgot the add "and companys" being that your throughing in a small dig." This is why I brought up grammer in the first place. I can't fully see what he is trying to say here.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Thank you steel, I knew I was going to mess up something. Now if only someone could decipher what this is suppose to mean. I still don't know.
"you forgot the add "and companys" being that your throughing in a small dig." This is why I brought up grammer in the first place. I can't fully see what he is trying to say here.

Since your big brain can't comprehend it, I'll translate for you (although I agree people need to learn to proofread): "you forgot to add 'and companies,' since you're throwing in a small dig."