Union or not Union, that is the question

[Rez O. Lewshun]

. But those people will not be treated respectfully when they try to cross the picket line to come to work.

And why should they be?

 

[paulsalem]

And why should they be?

Enough said.

 

[PCL_128]

Although I'm only a 1,000 hour CFI, so what do I know?

Enough said.

 

[paulsalem]

Enough said.

But I have five years of management experience at various companies.

And you're right, if I had 20,000 hours I'd probably change my mind

 

[PCL_128]

But I have five years of management experience at various companies.

And you're right, if I had 20,000 hours I'd probably change my mind

Do you have any idea how many airline pilots are anti-union when they get hired? Give them just a few months of living under draconian working conditions and their tune changes real quick. I'm a prime example. I was one of the most anti-union people you would ever meet. Less than a year into working at my previous non-union airline, my opinion changed real quick. I'm sure yours would too.

And no, it has nothing to do with how many hours you have. I could care less how many hours anyone has. However, how can you possibly know whether unions are necessary when you haven't even been a part of this profession yet?

 

[paulsalem]

Do you have any idea how many airline pilots are anti-union when they get hired? Give them just a few months of living under draconian working conditions and their tune changes real quick. I'm a prime example. I was one of the most anti-union people you would ever meet. Less than a year into working at my previous non-union airline, my opinion changed real quick. I'm sure yours would too.

That's what my roomate tells me. If I ever end up at a regional maybe I change my mind. I hope not though. But if I do I'll let you know.

how can you possibly know whether unions are necessary when you haven't even been a part of this profession yet?

Fair question. If enough pilots don't like the working conditions and quit. And since the conditions are so bad nobody will work there, then the management will be forced to make improvements in order to get and keep employees.

 

[PCL_128]

That's what my roomate tells me.

Sounds like a smart guy.

 

[paulsalem]

Sounds like a smart guy.

Hahaha, he's been corruped. Drinking the coolaid!

 

[Majik]

If enough pilots don't like the working conditions and quit. And since the conditions are so bad nobody will work there, then the management will be forced to make improvements in order to get and keep employees.

It doesn't work that way in the real world. To get a good job in aviation you must have experience. There will always be a long line of pilots willing to initially work for low pay and a poor quality of life while they attempt to gain that experience. The only way to convince management to make those improvements is to have leverage and the ability to negotiate. As long as there is a line of low-time pilots willing to work cheap the only leverage pilots have is to stand together and argue their collective worth to management. Management then has to make a decision; improve pay/working conditions or replace their experienced workforce. There's a big cost in hiring/training an entire workforce and it takes time. There's also a risk that customers may not want to fly in the back of that company's aircraft while those new pilots gain experience.

Either way, it's still management's final decision.

A lot of anti-union folks feel it's not right for people to try to improve working conditions within their company. They, like you, feel you should either accept the job and keep your mouth shut or leave. Employees legally having the choice to negotiate improvements just seems wrong to some.

 

[Brian a300]

You must look at Unions as a cheap insurance policy. I was at NetJets and now Fedex, keep in mind that once something goes wrong, ie missed trip, late show, dinged aircraft. The Union looks pretty good at this point.

If you don't have one, you are an at will employee and can be fired for any minor infraction. The Union Contract must be followed with the company. If there is no contract, then will may have to pay out of pocket to get your job back w/ an attorney. As was stated earlier though, the union is the people locally, if they have no integrity, then you are doomed to fail.