Union getting serious at CitationAir

[jonjuan]

Your gonna have to explain that statement a bit, I don't get you?

Btw, I finally have to ask, is your avatar of age? Looks kinda young.

Age is relative (29, BTW).

I was simply saying that the frax market isn't growing. Owners are simply moving from program to program. I'll try to see if I can find the report I read about 6 weeks ago regarding this.

 

[RCR5]

Well, your not growing. Your not selling Phenoms and your management only recalled pilots to try and queer the union vote.

Plus your pay scales are 'informational'. Lots of work to do. You have my support.

We are growing...how many X's did we have last year at this time? We are selling shares in Cessna aircraft, and we recalled pilots because of the growth.....nice try though.

Anything short of improvements on our current situation is not going to be looked at with favor by anyone but the die hard union people. If you look at the small majority of pilots that voted for these guys and consider that all of management is probably also against this union, this union is in the minority here and is not looked at with favor in our company. If there is a way to get rid of them, I am hoping we do. We don't need them and I believe everyone will see that soon enough.

FLOPS is the example some have used in favor of the Teamsters being at CA? Right, they make less than us and we didn't have a union to accomplish that.

 

[dime line]

FLOPS is the example some have used in favor of the Teamsters being at CA? Right, they make less than us and we didn't have a union to accomplish that.

"accomplish", you (CA) didn't accomplish anything reguarding pay. Thank NJ's, oh yea Teamsters. My how some of you forget.

 

[The Dude Abides]

If you look at the small majority of pilots that voted for these guys and consider that all of management is probably also against this union, this union is in the minority here and is not looked at with favor in our company. If there is a way to get rid of them, I am hoping we do. We don't need them and I believe everyone will see that soon enough.

FLOPS is the example some have used in favor of the Teamsters being at CA? Right, they make less than us and we didn't have a union to accomplish that.

What great arguments! Do you hold your breath and stamp your feet like my 9 year old when you write this stuff? Gee . .. management is "probably" against the union? I'll clear it up for you . . . they are NOT for it. Who cares though? They are not counted in the sum total of pilots either for or against. Yes, it was a small victory. But it was a victory. Your choice now is to work with it or not. Sounds like your mind's made up. If you get your wish they'll "get rid of them" for you so you go on with your little world. Whether you like it or not though your world was changed by a majority of the pilots. Good luck!

Oh, and to carry on with what Dime Line wrote . . . WE don't HAVE, WE didn't ACCOMPLISH, WE GET informational . . . that's it. We make more than they do, so we're so much better off. I'm so tired of that argument. Have you looked at the whole package or are you just following SO's lead? Have you done the homework or are you just following blindly? When you voted was it objective or was it is cast out of hatred for those whom you wish they would "get rid of?"

 

[The Dude Abides]

Yeah, a union is going to solve everything. Tick, tock, is right. Start the countdown to the end of the company. Things will NOT get better. I will happily eat crow if I am wrong.

Man, are you negative. What are you doing now, what were you doing before to make things better instead of pouting?

Who said a union was going to solve everything?

 

[Praetorian]

FLOPS is the example some have used in favor of the Teamsters being at CA? Right, they make less than us and we didn't have a union to accomplish that.

As a result of the collective bargaining process, when the CBA was ratified in April of 2010 I got a 10% raise, I also got $1200 in retro pay. In Jan. of 2011 I got a 12.5% raise as a result the CBA. Additionally this year I will also get another 3.5% raise on my anniversary. In 2012 I will get a 3.5% raise. In April of 2013, if the company elects to excersize its option to extend the contract (highly likely) I will get a 6.5% raise. In 2014 same 6.5% raise under same circumstances.

Also, as outlined in the CBA I can expense all of my meals while on the road. This means I can pocket all of my per-diem, which is worth over $7900 per year. It also means I can eat at Ruth’s Chris every night on the company dime if I want (that lasted about two tours for most of us, can’t eat like that anymore).

Also, as outlined in the contract we are eligible for a fuel bonus every month, 90% of us get it and its worth a minimum of $3000 every year, could double that if you are very efficient/lucky.

Point is if you are simply comparing the pay scales, you are, well, missing the point. The union had to get very creative with this contract, because it was negotiated during the depths of the recession. A lot of the dough is staged in over the life of the agreement. But we immediately got work rules, scope protections, a disciplinary procedure layed out in writing with an appeals process and much more.

The pilots a CA made a wise choice voting in the union, because right now you really have nothing. Everything you think you have – including those wages your bragging about – can be taken away at the stroke of a Friday afternoon email from your management. They did this to you the last two years in a row didn't they?

Since you think Flight Options is such a terrible place to work, ask any of our pilots you meet on the road if they would trade places with you (go back to at-will) even for the money. I don’t think you will get many takers. We’ve learned its not just about the money, its about quality of life while at work and predictability and security for our families. That’s what the CBA brought us.

You have my support.

 

[SpaceBall 1]

Since you think Flight Options is such a terrible place to work, ask any of our pilots you meet on the road if they would trade places with you (go back to at-will) even for the money. I don’t think you will get many takers. We’ve learned its not just about the money, its about quality of life while at work and predictability and security for our families. That’s what the CBA brought us.

I asked many of FLOPS pilots this exact question, with the exception of one, who I believe was a shop steward, they all said that they would rather be at CitationAir. Nice try though.

In fact, all the NJ folks I came across said run away from the IBT. Oh well....we are where we are now. I have hope. The drums to kick out IBT and form an in house are getting louder and louder.

 

[dime line]

I asked many of FLOPS pilots this exact question, with the exception of one, who I believe was a shop steward, they all said that they would rather be at CitationAir. Nice try though.

In fact, all the NJ folks I came across said run away from the IBT. Oh well....we are where we are now. I have hope. The drums to kick out IBT and form an in house are getting louder and louder.

I seriously doubt this statement

 

[The Dude Abides]

I asked many of FLOPS pilots this exact question, with the exception of one, who I believe was a shop steward, they all said that they would rather be at CitationAir. Nice try though.

In fact, all the NJ folks I came across said run away from the IBT. Oh well....we are where we are now. I have hope. The drums to kick out IBT and form an in house are getting louder and louder.

Finally . . . some serious, scientific evidence against a union. How many is many? Nice try.

Did they use the words "ran away from" or was it more like an inhouse served their purposes much better than the IBT at that time? Not sure what the feeling on that decision now is. And are you sure about "all?"

The drums may be getting louder, but louder in your head only. I've talked to "many" CA pilots who voted NO, but are now saying they'll join and pay dues.

And if anyone seriously thinks an inhouse for a group this small is anything other "doomed from the start," I recommend sucking the O2 a little longer to clear the old synapses.

 

[G4dude]

I wish Citation Air had gone with an in house union instead of the atrocious IBT.