Union getting serious at CitationAir

[imacdog]

I'm one of those 500. Right now I can't tell you how much I appreciate the union and what they are doing for the pilot group. I can't go into detail and I won't speak for any other pilots on the list, but this furloughed pilot has better chances of a recall sooner because of the union and pilot contract.

 

[RCR5]

Unions do not magically save jobs, so I'm not sure why you would bring that up. What a union can do is provide a written, legally enforceable agreement between the company and a group of employees on predefined rules and conditions on how such an action can take place. Aside from the 401K, medical premiums, seniority-based furlough, and defined recall rights mentioned earlier, there has been no suspension of the pilot pay scale (like what happened at a non-union fractional), and pilots who did get furloughed due to company overstaffing were given two full months of full pay and benefits after their effective furlough date. This was something not offered to the non-union employee groups who faced the same reduction in force.

See above post. We are getting back on our feet in a fast way. How are you doing? How much longer? We will be hiring inside a year. You?

BTW, before all these furloughs, you guys used to think they saved jobs? What gives? Reality set in? There are posts on this site by your employees that claim the union does just that. My how soon we forget.

 

[RCR5]

I'm one of those 500. Right now I can't tell you how much I appreciate the union and what they are doing for the pilot group. I can't go into detail and I won't speak for any other pilots on the list, but this furloughed pilot has better chances of a recall sooner because of the union and pilot contract.

Well you certainly are the exception. All one has to do is look in previous threads at how 'happy' your furloughed pilots are with your union to find the norm. Just sayin.....lol.

 

[imacdog]

My 8-ball says "I couldn't tell you with any accuracy". With the musical chairs being played by upper management, this company needs real leadership before it can get on track. This is not a function of having a union or not.

 

[imacdog]

Well you certainly are the exception. All one has to do is look in previous threads at how 'happy' your furloughed pilots are with your union to find the norm. Just sayin.....lol.

I'll challenge you on this. I have access to surveys that you don't.

 

[RCR5]

I'll challenge you on this. I have access to surveys that you don't.

Surveys to the union from employees? Or surveys on how many posted on FI here saying how they really feel?

 

[imacdog]

Let's not confuse what pilots are saying about the direction of the company versus satisfaction with the union. Right now there is a big difference.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Waco, you might think you don't really need it in writing at Avantair and neither did I until our last CEO, Sh*tfinger, landed on the property (seemingly out of no ware) after a nefarious career at USAir express. Boy was I wrong. Don't make the same mistake we did.

+1.

MS was singlehandedly responsible for me going from one of the most vehement anti-union pilots you would find to a full on supporter, 3 years before a contract.

This guy was very close to firing (I can't call it furlough, because at the time we would have had no recall rights) pilots, regardless of seniority, as they rationalized the fleets. For example, the Challenger 601's we operated were crewed by senior pilots (as you would expect). MS was prepared to fire those pilots as the 601's left our fleet (replaced by the Legacy), his thought process being "Why keep our most expensive pilots if we're not compelled to do so?". Had he done that, the pilot group would have unified immediately, and we would have had a contract several years sooner. But it would have been too late for the senior pilots who were fired.

If seniority isn't important to you, then I guess my example means nothing.

MS has now taken his show to BBA / Signature. Ask any of their employees (from CSR's on down) what this guy is doing to them. I understand he's got a job to do, and he is hired as a "cutter". But MS wouldn't know customer service nor how to manage a customer service group (i.e., fractional pilots) if his life depended on it. Now he's got a legion of pissed off employees. It is hard to imagine how service at Signature could get any worse, but it certainly has under MS's reign.

Now, ask yourselves this question: What happens when the controlling shareholders (the REAL bosses, whom your managers work for) at CitationAir (or Flex, or Avantair) decide they need a S. Michael Sheeringa to come aboard and cut costs? Are you prepared to "negotiate" on your own, individually, for your jobs?

 

[CA1900]

Since most are forecasting that they will be out for close to 5 years; do the math. I suspect we will be hiring inside a year. Your union company will be hiring again, when?

No idea, but that's not determined by a union. What is determined is things like guaranteed recall rights (which "expire" or don't exist at all at our non-union competitors), furlough pay, and the pay and benefits package.

300 more out the door......great union work.

If that does happen, it has nothing to do with the union. Quite the opposite, in fact: were it not for the scope provisions in our contract, those 300 would already be out the door under our current management team, which is hell-bent on outsourcing our work.

I just hope you folks don't have to deal with a major change of management like we just had. If Textron comes in and says, "Knock 40% off the pilot costs," how exactly are you planning on keeping what you have?

 

[Willy21]

Since most are forecasting that they will be out for close to 5 years; do the math. I suspect we will be hiring inside a year. Your union company will be hiring again, when?

300 more out the door......great union work. Regardless, I am sure those 500+ pilots are still loving the union.

You seem to be confusing what management has control over and what a union has control over. The reason CitationAir is recalling and as you say will be hiring within the year is because they are taking delivery of new/growth airplanes. NetJets is not.

NetJets Management believed it would be best to cancel all orders during the downturn. Now that things are looking up they have ordered new airplanes, the first of which won't be here until the 4th quarter of 2012. Management has said that the deliveries will be replacement aircraft instead of growth airplanes. Therefore the only reason to recall pilots is to cover attrition. Until NetJets management decides to grow the company or pilots retire and/or move on we will have pilots on furlough.

With all of that being said I ask what makes you believe the union has any control over growth, hiring or recalls?