Union at Shares

[fischman]

ROFL!

Bow down low all to the all glorious union contract for it is the almighty knight in shining armor to all! Repeat after me, long live the contract! Long live the contract!

For no company or pilot can possibly be happy or secure without the all powerful union contract.

The fact that Uncle Warren has enough money to fund the economy of most small sovereign nations has nothing to do with the job being attractive and having job security, eh?

You've already proven that you are a management stooge in another thread. I honestly care not what your worthless opinion of my union is. You are a small man who wants to be big. I am a small man that enjoys being insignificant to the company.

The bottom line is that a union at CS would help those pilots secure a productive future that they can be proud of. They would be able to negotiate work rules to end the abuse (I understand that a 20 hour duty day on the last day is common), more pay, more time off, more vacation, etc... The better their contract is, the better chance our will be.

 

[fischman]

Nice try...He was there when the contract was signed and still left. I got to see all your "Jimmy Hoffa" propaganda. Your theory doesn't work.

Hey fischman...why worry about spelling when I have Bi-otches like you to correct it...next time I'll send you the draft prior to putting it on the net.

P.S. Your just a bus driver...get used to it

Don't worry about sending me the draft. You can simply hit the little icon that says "abc" and has a little check under it.

However since you spelled "pre-madonna" correctly, but don't understand the difference between that and a "prima donna" you might want to at least run a google search so you don't look like a fool. Biotch.

 

[B19 Flyer]

You've already proven that you are a management stooge in another thread. I honestly care not what your worthless opinion of my union is. You are a small man who wants to be big. I am a small man that enjoys being insignificant to the company.

The bottom line is that a union at CS would help those pilots secure a productive future that they can be proud of. They would be able to negotiate work rules to end the abuse (I understand that a 20 hour duty day on the last day is common), more pay, more time off, more vacation, etc... The better their contract is, the better chance our will be.

Hmmm... interesting. I am a former "management" stooge if that is what you want to call it that has seen unions from angles that I'm certain that nearly all pilots haven't. How many ruined careers does it take to take the position that unions aren't a good thing? One, two, or thousands? I've had to completely rework my career twice due to union activity, and I have many friends that have also been "sacrificed" that actually belonged to the union that was supposed to protect them. Instead of taking concessions to protect the entire group, we watched the union keep the pay and benefits for the top 2/3 and sacrifice the bottom third, many of them with more than five years of seniority. My sarcasm above was directly related to the statement that the contract was what made NJ attractive. Bulls**t. NJ is attractive because Uncle Warren respects what the entire company does as a whole and not what the contract says. Southwest is the same way. Kellaher built the respect and the old union leadership signed a ten year agreement that worked. Herb is gone and the new union leadership is already playing games now that the contract is amendable. It is guys like you that aren't willing or able to step into leadership roles to help the company that cause union intervention in the first place. You would rather be led around like a lemming by your union than be a solution to the problem. As far as being a small man that wants to be a big man... that's a joke. I've been close enough to the "big man" in a major carrier and watched him pull the hair out of his head when he couldn't do things for his people because he was handuffed by a contract. The contract works both ways. You might think that it does great things, but I've seem it hurt more people than it's helped. Look at all the layoffs over the last four years. Each layoff was preceded by a headline of labor discord by each carrier just before bankrupcty. The last carrier to be placed into bankruptcy was Delta and they are the least unionized which allowed them the flexibility to keep more of their staff than any other carrier. In the end, it was still the union that forced their hand and the bankruptcy occurred. Look at the USAir guys right now and the merger. Another labor related horror show. You may love your union, but your union doesn't love you. One last thought, you can remain insignificant within your union. I will continue to reap the benefits of pay and job security because I am NO LONGER involved in a company with a union. We both made a choice, for me I like my choice. Some people need others to think for them, to those I say find a union, but be prepared to have periods of discord and live though a roller coaster throughout your career.

 

[flyboy7963f]

Nice post B-19

 

[pilotpat]

B-19...it may appear you have a chip there sitting pretty large on your shoulder(s). I, for one, did management outside of aviation. Doesn't make it any different, though as people are people and still act the same. That being said, how can you imply that people who are unionized are weak? I take great offense at that, since my wife - a biochemist and teacher - is unionized. Son. She could walk cirlces around most of us with some of the things she knows. Is she led around like a little sheep? I think not. So, what gives you the right to think you're so almighty just because you're not unionized? I'd really like to know what "carriers" you claim to have worked for. I'd also like to know where your hard facts are blaming unions for these carriers' bankruptcy. I guess their claim of 9/11 was a farce. I guess the two guys I know from Delta, who'd been on property for 6 whole months when 9/11 happened, got the wrong info from the guy walking in saying they were furloughed due to the tragedy. Luckily, one is back with Delta and the other is at JB.

Point is - its a ridiculous claim that people who are unionized can't think for themselves.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Pat, keep in mind that the response was directly aimed at the following quote:

I am a small man that enjoys being insignificant to the company.

I too have worked and managed in other fields, but no other industry has had havoc wreaked upon it by unions like the airline industry that we choose to work in.

 

[pilotpat]

Pat, keep in mind that the response was directly aimed at the following quote:

I hear 'ya B19...but I still wholeheartedly disagree with some of the things stated in your post. Those 2 guys who were with Delta when they got furloughed sat next to me for 2 and 3 years straight. I heard all that happened first hand. And I can tell you, it wasn't just a union that caused Delta's troubles. I'm just glad they both got recalled. One took it, the other was all ready at JB and decided to pass. Both got a pretty large chunk of change from the retirement fiasco because the company and the union worked together to resolve it. The company simply wanted to do away with the retirement, I believe.

 

[B19 Flyer]

I guess their claim of 9/11 was a farce. I guess the two guys I know from Delta, who'd been on property for 6 whole months when 9/11 happened, got the wrong info from the guy walking in saying they were furloughed due to the tragedy. Luckily, one is back with Delta and the other is at JB.

The industry was already in trouble before 9/11 and everybody was scrambling. I know, because I was working for one of the carriers that was scrambling before I got laid off when the company was on the brink (that answers one of your questions). The writing was on the wall long before the events of 9/11. The carrier I was with was already parking airplanes and has stopped all pilot hiring long before 9/11. Thousands including myself was laid off during this downsizing. None of the unions involved below gave an inch until the carriers were either in or on the brink of bankruptcy which caused the layoffs. How many more articles and links would you like? The second quarter wasn't any better.

Note the date of this news article:

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstr...s/Organizations/A/Air Line Pilots Association

5 of 6 Big U.S. Airlines Post First-Quarter Losses


*Please Note: Archive articles do not include photos, charts or graphics. More information.
April 19, 2001, Thursday
By LAURENCE ZUCKERMAN (NYT); Business/Financial Desk
Late Edition - Final, Section C, Page 1, Column 2, 1128 words
DISPLAYING ABSTRACT - UAL Corp, parent of United Airlines, reports operating loss of $305 million in first quarter compared with profit of $136 million in year-earlier quarter; United says it does not expect its proposed $4.3 billion purchase of US Airways to receive regulatory approval before July, raising doubts deal might be completed; US Airways reports loss of $171 million compared with loss of $218 million in first quarter of 2000; Delta Air Lines reports loss of $133 million in contrast to net income of $216 million year ago; National Mediation Board asks two sides in Comair pilots labor dispute to meet in Washington next week, which would be first talks since strike began on March 26; Comair is owned by Delta; AMR Corp, parent of American Airlines, reports loss of $43 million in contrast to profit of $89 million last year; Northwest Airlines reports loss of $123 million compared to loss of $42 million in same 2000 quarter

 

[pilotpat]

But, B19...I can also cite a few dozen articles showing the airline executive bonuses proposed and received during said losses and for subsequent years up to the present. The only union mentioned above is Comair's pilot strike, which, in my opinion, was a just cause. How can you simply blame the unions for the downward spiral of these carriers? What part does Priceline, Orbitz and the myriad of others that offer seats at $89 a pop play? I remember when it seemed a privilege to fly. You actually got dressed up to sit in the aluminum tube. You actually saved up to take the flight instead of sitting on a train for 12 hours instead of 3. Do you think that might have a small part in all of this? I hypothesize that it does.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Oh here we go with the executive bonus b.s. Yeah you're right Pat, the frickin' CEO ought to give away his house, and pimp out his wife and 14 year old daughter, together, so that we can get every single dollar possible from the traveling public. And BTW, those cheap ba$tards aren't paying enough, either. Raise prices. Pay us more...More...MORE!!! Save. SAVE all your money so you can pay me...Me...ME...MEEEEEEEE. And you oughta be dressed up when you come aboard. Don't you know what a privilege this is, and what a professional I am..I... III.. Me... MEEE... Money... MONEY....UNION...MEEEEE...

Get a grip, Dude.

B-19, your post - and now his, too - explains the union situation quite well.