Union at Shares

[Ultra Grump]

"Pilots" is plural. It means: more than one pilot. "Pilot's" is possessive. It denotes ownership, like the Gay Pilot's Association.

Actually, I think you're talking about the Lonely Gay Pilot's Association, as it's just the one gay pilot associating with himself (would that then be the Masturbator Pilot's Association?). Otherwise, it's the Gay Pilots' Association.

 

[Sparse]

What are you doing Friday night big boy?




How do you know when you've won an argument? When the other resorts to name calling.

We at the GPA (Gay Pilot's Association) pride ourselves on excellent grammar and spelling. Therefore, let me just point out a couple more for you.

I don't know what talking "thrash" is. Perhaps you meant talking "trash"?

"Pilots" is plural. It means: more than one pilot. "Pilot's" is possessive. It denotes ownership, like the Gay Pilot's Association.

I'd rather have brains than brawn any day. Crawl back in your cave.

Back to class fischman. Pilots, is indeed plural. The correct way to denote plural possesive is pilots'. Your example, pilot's, would imply the GPA only has one member. Could that be you?

 

[Humphreybogart]

Why is the only cure to things is to bring in a union? Every company in the frac industry has its downfalls, union or not. At CitationShares, we have more positives going for us than negatives, this WITHOUT a union. How about the unfortunate people at FLOPS, the union sure screwed them with their induction. This goes to show that the union CAN be stood up to. C'mon NJ people tell me that there is nothing that you disagree (double negative) with with what your company and union came to terms with and I'll call you a liar. Remember that your union dues are comming out of your paycheck! None are comming out of mine!

 

[fischman]

Actually, I think you're talking about the Lonely Gay Pilot's Association, as it's just the one gay pilot associating with himself (would that then be the Masturbator Pilot's Association?). Otherwise, it's the Gay Pilots' Association.

That is hilarious!

I stand corrected.:beer:

 

[dime line]

Why is the only cure to things is to bring in a union? Every company in the frac industry has its downfalls, union or not. At CitationShares, we have more positives going for us than negatives, this WITHOUT a union. How about the unfortunate people at FLOPS, the union sure screwed them with their induction. This goes to show that the union CAN be stood up to. C'mon NJ people tell me that there is nothing that you disagree (double negative) with with what your company and union came to terms with and I'll call you a liar. Remember that your union dues are comming out of your paycheck! None are comming out of mine!

Oh really, why don't you tell me how the union at FLops is screwing us more than management is screwing us.

And how much do you pay for health insurance?, out of your pocket, moron

 

[fischman]

Oh really, why don't you tell me how the union at FLops is screwing us more than management is screwing us.

And how much do you pay for health insurance?, out of your pocket, moron

Great post. Can't wait to hear his response.

 

[pilotpat]

He's going to respond the same way he did on the CS Insurance thread:
"It depends on who you want to cover on your insurance".

How about, "It costs a ton of cash per month"? That ought to be about right.

 

[Humphreybogart]

Oh really, why don't you tell me how the union at FLops is screwing us more than management is screwing us.

And how much do you pay for health insurance?, out of your pocket, moron

When you grow up a little, maybe I'll talk to you, j-off.

 

[pilotpat]

When you grow up a little, maybe I'll talk to you, j-off.

Heh, heh...well, that's a decent response. What a tard.

 

[fischman]

When you grow up a little, maybe I'll talk to you, j-off.

Name calling.

Who needs to grow up?

 

[dime line]

Name calling.

Who needs to grow up?

Well I did call him a moron...

ops did i say that, well I'm all grown up now

 

[Ultra Grump]

Remember that your union dues are comming out of your paycheck! None are comming out of mine!

From another thread:

HMO plus dental and vision

single 65/month
emp plus 1 156/month
emp plus 2 or more 233/month

I pay about $100/month in union dues. I have free health insurance for me and my family. Let's say I have a wife and 1 or 2 kids. Who comes out ahead in that scenario? BTW, aren't you guys charged $10/meal for your crew food? One per duty day = another $150-200 per month. I generally get 2-3 crew meals per duty day. I'll gladly pay my $100/month in union dues to avoid being nickel-and-dimed to the poorhouse.

 

[Sparse]

From another thread:

I pay about $100/month in union dues. I have free health insurance for me and my family. Let's say I have a wife and 1 or 2 kids. Who comes out ahead in that scenario? BTW, aren't you guys charged $10/meal for your crew food? One per duty day = another $150-200 per month. I generally get 2-3 crew meals per duty day. I'll gladly pay my $100/month in union dues to avoid being nickel-and-dimed to the poorhouse.

Never say never but CS will not ever have free health benefits. I will gamble and say free health care as we know it today will go away at NJ as well. I would bet the typical CS pilot gets on average 1 crew meal per tour. Personally, I couldn't stomach 2-3 crew meals per duty period. After a while it's like eating the same thing over and over.

 

[Stinkbug]

From another thread:

I pay about $100/month in union dues. I have free health insurance for me and my family. Let's say I have a wife and 1 or 2 kids. Who comes out ahead in that scenario? BTW, aren't you guys charged $10/meal for your crew food? One per duty day = another $150-200 per month. I generally get 2-3 crew meals per duty day. I'll gladly pay my $100/month in union dues to avoid being nickel-and-dimed to the poorhouse.

I think you do come out ahead, overall, but let's not forget CS pilots get more per diem than you. Not sure but I believe it's about ten dollars more per day?

 

[Ultra Grump]

I would bet the typical CS pilot gets on average 1 crew meal per tour. Personally, I couldn't stomach 2-3 crew meals per duty period. After a while it's like eating the same thing over and over.

You guys must not fly much, then. How can you keep airplanes moving with one crew meal per tour? Your per diem rate is significantly better than ours, I'll give you that.

 

[Stinkbug]

You guys must not fly much, then. How can you keep airplanes moving with one crew meal per tour? Your per diem rate is significantly better than ours, I'll give you that.

I personally can't imagine how anyone can go a whole tour of flying without ordering crew meals. Anyone who does must be going hungry or is spending a lot of their personal time chasing down food. I just don't see any reason to do that; ten dollars is what I'd spend on a decent meal anyway, if not more.

 

[bailout]

Ive only had one crew meal in all of last year combined. When you're hungry, you go get something to eat.

 

[Stinkbug]

Ive only had one crew meal in all of last year combined. When you're hungry, you go get something to eat.

Stuff happens on a daily basis...I've had too many lunch and dinner plans thwarted due to the changing needs of the company. Besides, when I get a break I want to relax in a LazyBoy, not go driving around in an unfamiliar city looking for food. But, to each his own.

 

[FRLWD]

I've had too many lunch and dinner plans thwarted due to the changing needs of the company.

That's exactly why your company should provide you with a crew meal free of charge.

A union contract isn't just about money, it provides a measure of protection against the constant pressure to do whatever it takes to get the job done.

If a company expects you to be ready at a moments notice, they need to meet your basic needs. Food and rest are at the top of the list.

 

[Fozzy]

From another thread:

I pay about $100/month in union dues. I have free health insurance for me and my family. Let's say I have a wife and 1 or 2 kids. Who comes out ahead in that scenario? BTW, aren't you guys charged $10/meal for your crew food? One per duty day = another $150-200 per month. I generally get 2-3 crew meals per duty day. I'll gladly pay my $100/month in union dues to avoid being nickel-and-dimed to the poorhouse.

Hump will not respond to this. What could he say?

 

[Fozzy]

Never say never but CS will not ever have free health benefits. I will gamble and say free health care as we know it today will go away at NJ as well.

What are you basing this on??!!?? Seriously. "go away"? Sorry NJA can not just change our benefits like they do at CS. We have something called a CBA! Educate yourself. You are leaving a lot of money on the table by not having a contract. Or maybe you like giving money away.
Sure, they may want to change things in 2010. But guess what, nothing changes until we vote yes.

Edit. Do you work for CS or NJA? Because if you are NJA we need to talk.

 

[Stinkbug]

That's exactly why your company should provide you with a crew meal free of charge.

A union contract isn't just about money, it provides a measure of protection against the constant pressure to do whatever it takes to get the job done.

If a company expects you to be ready at a moments notice, they need to meet your basic needs. Food and rest are at the top of the list.

At least we have a reliable crew meal program. From what I've heard about some of the other fracs, that's not necessarily the norm. Free crew meals would be nice though.

 

[Stinkbug]

What are you basing this on??!!?? Seriously. "go away"? Sorry NJA can not just change our benefits like they do at CS. We have something called a CBA! Educate yourself. You are leaving a lot of money on the table by not having a contract. Or maybe you like giving money away.
Sure, they may want to change things in 2010. But guess what, nothing changes until we vote yes.

Edit. Do you work for CS or NJA? Because if you are NJA we need to talk.

By not having YOUR contract, we may be leaving SOME money on the table, true enough. But our base pay is pretty close, our per diem is higher, and we work about the same amount per year. I'm aware of the differences in vacation and health care, but a blanket statement that we're giving away a ton of money simply by not having "a contract" seems to be assuming an awful lot. I had "a contract" at the regional I worked for, but I don't remember it netting me a whole lot of gain in the long run.

 

[Fozzy]

Deep thouhts.

They can change it at any time!
You are leaving money on the table.
You would not have what you have now if it was not for the NJA CBA.
When will they make an adjustment (COLA) to your current pay scale/benefits/retirement??? Oh wait I know, after we get a new CBA in 2010! I am sure that it will be just coincidence.
What kind of retirement do you have?
What happens when you fk up at work and get called in? When do you get to change fleets?
When do you get to upgrade?? And into what fleet???
What happens if they don't get your food to you in time?
What happens if you are exhausted and have to call fatigued? Twice? Three times? And the next day cancel for weather??
What happens if they don't get you home on your last day? How does that pay?
Do you get holiday pay?
Who gets let go if they (God forbid, seriously) furlough?
What happens if you get bought!?!

Do you need me to go on? I don't mean to be harsh, but you folks are operating without a net. Maybe you like that daredevil stuff. Me, I have nothing to prove. My family and I need as much security as we can get in our lives. My Union dues are money well spent.
And I get to write it off my taxes!

 

[Crash Pad]

Fozzy must be on the LEC, or have we found what Dwayne is doing post NWA/greater VA outside DC area.

 

[Stinkbug]

They can change it at any time!
You are leaving money on the table.
You would not have what you have now if it was not for the NJA CBA.
When will they make an adjustment (COLA) to your current pay scale/benefits/retirement??? Oh wait I know, after we get a new CBA in 2010! I am sure that it will be just coincidence.
What kind of retirement do you have?
What happens when you fk up at work and get called in? When do you get to change fleets?
When do you get to upgrade?? And into what fleet???
What happens if they don't get your food to you in time?
What happens if you are exhausted and have to call fatigued? Twice? Three times? And the next day cancel for weather??
What happens if they don't get you home on your last day? How does that pay?
Do you get holiday pay?
Who gets let go if they (God forbid, seriously) furlough?
What happens if you get bought!?!

Do you need me to go on? I don't mean to be harsh, but you folks are operating without a net. Maybe you like that daredevil stuff. Me, I have nothing to prove. My family and I need as much security as we can get in our lives. My Union dues are money well spent.
And I get to write it off my taxes!

Things have changed over the years, but they've been changes for the better.
We wouldn't have what we have now if it weren't for the Netjets CBA. So what? I could care less whether it's a "coincidence" or not. If our management is committed to keeping up with you, why should I pay union dues?
We have a 401k, same as you. Management knows it's a hot-button issue and I'm confident it will be improved.
People fk up all the time. Own up to it and you'll be fine. Management isn't out to ruin anyone's life.
People upgrade in roughly the amount of time they were told in the interview. I don't personally know of any exceptions to this. Every fleet is paid the same so I see no relevance in that respect.
If they don't get our food to us when we request it we get it on the next leg. Of course I don't like it when that happens, but that's how it is. What does your contract provide if that happens?
I've never called in fatigued, but I would imagine there would not be any repercussions. We take safety seriously and I'm sure scheduling would simply reassign the trip.
If they don't get us home the next day we get standard overtime.
The only holiday pay that I know of is offered on certain peak days, once or twice per year, on a volunteer basis.
I'm not worried about a furlough. I couldn't possibly speculate on how that would play out.
Again, getting bought out is not on my radar. I can't control everything.

Not trying to be combative here, you have valid points but I've never heard any of you guys present solid enough evidence as to why I should personally try to upset the balance of things here at CS.

 

[CA1900]

If our management is committed to keeping up with you, why should I pay union dues?

First, because it's not the same. Overtime and extended day provisions pay me about ten times what I pay a year in union dues, just as one example.

We have a 401k, same as you.

You have a 401k, but not even close to the same. We have a 50% match of up to 15% of our income, versus 6% at Shares. For a newhire, that's a difference of over $4,000 in company matching funds. That's not insignificant.

People fk up all the time. Own up to it and you'll be fine.

That worked great for the guys at Avantair, didn't it?

If they don't get our food to us when we request it we get it on the next leg. Of course I don't like it when that happens, but that's how it is. What does your contract provide if that happens?

So you'll fly a 3-hour leg with no food in your system because your lunch didn't make it? Doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

If we don't get our food, we delay the flight and go get some, simple as that.


A union's not a perfect solution by any means, but having seen what a non-union company will do to its employees at its whim, I'm much happier having a union on property. My dues are quite literally paid back tenfold every year just in overtime and extended days, not even counting the 40% payraise it negotiated. Money very, very well-spent.

 

[gunfyter]

I suspect there will not be a Union at CS in near future. Same with FLEX.

It seems like management will do enough to avoid it.

I think the FLOPS management did not do enough.

I think you really have to tick people off for them to take serious action.

 

[Stinkbug]

You have a 401k, but not even close to the same. We have a 50% match of up to 15% of our income, versus 6% at Shares. For a newhire, that's a difference of over $4,000 in company matching funds. That's not insignificant.

I'm confident our 401k will be improved in the near future. Do I know for sure, no.


That worked great for the guys at Avantair, didn't it?

Not sure what you mean by this. We're talking about CS, and I'm speaking from my personal experience with CS management.

So you'll fly a 3-hour leg with no food in your system because your lunch didn't make it? Doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

OK, I guess I didn't know what you were looking for with this question. The answer is that if we don't get our food and it's a matter of safety (and I agree that being famished is a safety issue), we can do whatever we have to do to rectify it. Ops will ensure that our crew meals are at our next destination, but I've delayed flights before to get food. That's not something that requires a contract to accomplish, just common sense.

 

[RCA]

"If we don't get our food, we delay the flight and go get some, simple as that." -NetJets explaining to the owner why their $20,000 airplane ride will be delayed.

If the human body can survive one week without food I'm fairly certain one could make it 3 or 4 hours with a light snack packed just for such an ocassion.

On second thought you guys have a union so therefore keeping the owners happy isn't important.