Unintended Consequences: New ATP Rule

[727gm]

A friend of mine with over 10000 hours, mostly multiengine jet, with over 3000 hours of heavy jet FAR 121 PIC/check airman time, 13 type ratings, and a FAA designated examiner, has determined that he is ineligible to be a captain under Part 121 by the new rule.

The new rule could particularly affect people who are otherwise eminently qualified for the left seat, and affect new startup carriers, or small 121 operators, direct-hire captain positions, or some who are out-of-work on the effective date.

From the rule:
*************************************************
FAR 121.436 Pilot Qualification: Certificates and experience requirements.
(a) No certificate holder may use nor may any pilot act as pilot in command of an aircraft (or as second in command of an aircraft in a flag or supplemental operation that requires three or more pilots) unless the pilot:
(1) Holds an airline transport pilot certificate not subject to the limitations in FAR 61.167 of this chapter;
(2) Holds an appropriate aircraft type rating for the aircraft being flown; and
(3) If serving as pilot in command, has 1,000 hours as second in command in operations under this part, pilot in command in operations under FAR 91.1053(a)(2)(i) of this chapter, pilot in command in operations under FAR 135.243(a)(1) of this chapter, or any combination thereof. For those pilots who are employed as pilot in command in part 121 operations on July 31, 2013, compliance with the requirements of this subparagraph is not required.
(b) No certificate holder may use nor may any pilot act as second in command unless the pilot holds an airline transport pilot certificate and an appropriate aircraft type rating for the aircraft being flown. A second-in-command type rating obtained under FAR 61.55 does not satisfy the requirements of this section.
(c) For the purpose of satisfying the flight hour requirement in paragraph (a)(3), a pilot may credit 500 hours of military flight time obtained as pilot in command of a multiengine turbine- powered, fixed-wing airplane in an operation requiring more than one pilot.
(d) Compliance with the requirements of this section is required by August 1, 2013. However, for those pilots who are employed as second in command in part 121 operations on July 31, 2013, compliance with the type rating requirement in paragraph (b) is not required until January 1, 2016.
***********************************************

In his case, he has around 285 hours of 121 SIC time prior to upgrade to Captain, and as mentioned before, 3000+ hours as 121 PIC. His airline shut down, and he has not returned to FAR 121 flying, but has a couple hundred hours as FAR 135 Jet PIC.
So in this case, the 121SIC and 135PIC do not add up to 1000 hours.

Following the rule, none of his 121 PIC time counts toward the 1000 hours, and is not grandfathered, as he will not be employed as as a FAR 121 PIC on July 31, 2013.
Although there are not that many people who upgraded so soon after getting into 121 flying, the drafters of this rule have not allowed for this case.

 

[atpcliff]

He can get a waiver, or the rule will be changed, because 1000+ hours as 121 PIC is a better qualification than 1000+ hours as 121 SIC.

cliff
PVG

 

[pilotyip]

For those pilots who are employed as pilot in command in part 121 operations on July 31, 2013, compliance with the requirements of this subparagraph is not required.

sounds like to me he keeps his job

 

[ackattacker]

He can get a waiver, or the rule will be changed, because 1000+ hours as 121 PIC is a better qualification than 1000+ hours as 121 SIC.

cliff
PVG

I agree with cliff here. The obvious intent of the reg is to count up 1000 hours of operations that, under the new rules, require an ATP. So they're saying PIC time in operations that require an ATP - That's 91.1053(a)(2)(i) and 135.243(a)(1), or SIC time in 121 operations, adds up to 1000 hours.

They seem to have forgotten to put in that 121 PIC time counts... but I don't see the FAA enforcing that because it's an obvious oversight. One could make the argument that 121 PIC trumps 121 SIC, as cliff says, or one could make the argument that part 91 rules are, as a general rule, still applicable under 121 unless the 121 rules are more restrictive. Hence someone operating under 121 rules is also complying 91.1053(a)(2)(i).

 

[727gm]

but I don't see the FAA enforcing that because it's an obvious oversight. One could make the argument......

They felt they needed to mention the medical, which seemed obvious to me, being as the reg was about experience, not health standards....but I expect they'll probably overlook this one.
They only let the Mil guys credit 500 hours....Why, I wonder...especially if it was transport....Though it may be because they feel these fellows have to unlearn that a flight is a mission.

 

[JAM-BRO]

;-)))

 

[pilotyip]

Egads!

We just got an AC from the Feds. Basically says after 7-31-14, you can only get an ATP for 121 ops at a 121 air carrier, and that you must have 30 hours of FAA approved ground school at a 121 air carrier and 10 hours of flight time in a level "C" or "D" sim with a GTOW greater than 40,000#'s in order to have permission to take the ATP written. It is a new AC and this is an initial reaction to what I read today
AC 61-138 - Airline Transport Pilot Certification Training Program

 

[OldManPilot]

This section applies to aircraft requiring 3 or more pilots. Read it carefully again.

 

[ackattacker]

This section applies to aircraft requiring 3 or more pilots. Read it carefully again.

Incorrect. Read it MORE carefully again. It applies to all PIC operations under 121 and SIC during 3-pilot operations (since the SIC in that case may be performing duties as PIC when the real Captain is sleeping in back).

 

[ackattacker]

We just got an AC from the Feds.....

Your link is broken but I found the AC on the FAA website here:

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_61-138.pdf

I'm scratching my head over this, as well. Cursory reading, it does seem to say what you say it says. Doesn't really affect 121 operations who are teaching this stuff this way already anyway, but what if you need an ATP for 135 Scheduled (Cape Air), single pilot. You need to fly 6 hours in a 40,000 pound full-flight simulator and receive 30 hours of training on dutch roll and swept wing aerodynamics and crew resource management and turbine engine operation? There must be something I'm not seeing here...