Undercutting the undercutters...lovely career

[filejw]

ALPA can help negotiate and enforce a contract plus multitude of real nice other stuff like medical and safety. It can't help your company get and keep business, especially on A/C your company doesn't own. Don't forget you have to participate to make any of this work.
Now that said I'm a one color one seniority list guy so please skip the BS that I know will follow this reply.

 

[David Clark]

Woohooo
Mesa sucks!!!!

Wow! When did this happen?


Could you do us a favor and post this at least once in every thread?


Thanks.

 

[LearLove]

Undercutters...

Reminds me of the classic Tom Green clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGb2wchIGBw

HMMM, pathetic that one average joe with a hammer could do what ALPA failed to do many years ago.

maybe someone should send the video to Prater.

 

[CRJ puppy]

The title of this thread makes no sense.

Please let it die.

 

[Full of LUV]

Why the Max?

If you want min pay rates then management is going to want someting... like max pay rates....

Is that ok?

In a nutshell, yes that would be OK as long as ALPA established a "professional rate" that was indexed to inflation as the minimum. Certain benefits included as well. I think employers would entertain the notion because they would have a handle on what the costs would be if they wanted to employ a "professional" pilot corps.
Now to enforce the professional concept, you have to treat non-professionals as what they are. You have to be willing to only extend the benefits of "professional" society to those who work for companies that employ professionals.
If VA wants to hire A320 pilots at substandard wages (don't know if they do), then other "professional" pilots have to ensure that their behavior working for a nonprofessional company is unacceptable, and benefits reserved for professionals will not be extended, ie jumpseats, alpa services, etc.
Make the benefits such that everyone only wants to work for a professional company and VA will have no choice but to hire professionals, right now, they can hire anyone, and they are welcomed into the pilot profession with open arms, even if they have to commute across country to work a job for 1/4 less pay in the highest cost area of the country.

 

[Flybywire44]

So if MESA is losing the 7 900s they have now, what is happening to the other 7 900's that MESA was supposed to receive in the future? It does not sound like DAL has announced where they are going.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

In a nutshell, yes that would be OK as long as ALPA established a "professional rate" that was indexed to inflation as the minimum. Certain benefits included as well. I think employers would entertain the notion because they would have a handle on what the costs would be if they wanted to employ a "professional" pilot corps.
Now to enforce the professional concept, you have to treat non-professionals as what they are. You have to be willing to only extend the benefits of "professional" society to those who work for companies that employ professionals.
If VA wants to hire A320 pilots at substandard wages (don't know if they do), then other "professional" pilots have to ensure that their behavior working for a nonprofessional company is unacceptable, and benefits reserved for professionals will not be extended, ie jumpseats, alpa services, etc.
Make the benefits such that everyone only wants to work for a professional company and VA will have no choice but to hire professionals, right now, they can hire anyone, and they are welcomed into the pilot profession with open arms, even if they have to commute across country to work a job for 1/4 less pay in the highest cost area of the country.

One big problem.

RLA.

Don't blame ALPA or unions for that. the RLA is fed law.

This is america. You can't force a company like VA and upstart to pay top end wages of a different business model.

We have all lived in American Culture with its economy and gov't. Why do we expect ALPA or for any reason that we as Pilots should have special economic barriers.... or protections...

 

[Wasted]

One big problem.

RLA.

Don't blame ALPA or unions for that. the RLA is fed law.

This is america. You can't force a company like VA and upstart to pay top end wages of a different business model.

We have all lived in American Culture with its economy and gov't. Why do we expect ALPA or for any reason that we as Pilots should have special economic barriers.... or protections...

Doesn't ALPA employ a lobbyist or two in Washington? What do they do all day? Isn't it their job to affect changes in law? Isn't that what a political action committee is supposed to do? What did those "I backed the pac" stickers get us? Age 65 rule change?

Why should longshoremen or construction workers get any special economic barriers/protections either? Because they fought for them. They negotiated for them. They played hardball, they played smart, they supported each other, and they won. That's business, that's America. Pilots and ALPA don't even rate anything close to those people, in fact, they're the opposite of all those virtues. Just lame, stupid, backstabbing, losers.

 

[cunchos]

The reality is that a union that doesn’t have the power to strike is meaningless. Until the pilots realize that the government isn’t going to arrest hole pilot group. Especially if the strike makes the media shines the light on all the down coming in government, management, and RLA. However I am a realist and we as pilots don’t have the @#@#@ to do this. So till we grow a pair or change career we should just vent our frustrations in a blog and see our futures dwindle away.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

cunchos-

valid point.... a couple of lobbyist is DC aren't going to change the RLA in favor of pilots...

Especially when there are many times more lobbyist in DC trying to change it the other way.. they've got the money.....

An FI post condeming labor is easy! (#24)

 

[Turtlesfly]

Rez,

so what you're saying is that you don't have any actual ideas that would fix anything.

 

[XPOO]

Never ask Rez a question, all he will do is answer your question with another question. He makes no attempt to solve anything but throws a myriad of ideas at you, but doesn't commit to any of them.

Wait, I think that's the Webster's definition of ALPA. Go figure.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez,

so what you're saying is that you don't have any actual ideas that would fix anything.

actually I do, but no one wants to hear it....

Most want their problems solved by others....

Many expect unions and to do and be something they are not. They don't have justification for this thinking, but yet they still believe it...

effectiveness is achieved my the unification of the members..

Individual commitment to a group effort - that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work -Lombardi​

Rosa Parks didn't change the racist laws in AL. She only brought awareness. What changed the laws was over a year of blacks not riding the city buses.

The quick argument is the leadership stinks. Ok, fine, find good leaders and place them in position. As pilots are are all leaders flying the line, but when it comes to our careers we act like welfare recipients...

Why?

 

[JumpersAway]

Rez: Kudos for doing something that not a single one of your critics is doing- contributing to the profession via a unified, established voice. Alpa is as strong as it's membership, not some miracle plan that runs on magic. Perhaps more people should quit bitching, and start participating to guide, and envoke change......

 

[Options_SLAVE]

The reality is that a union that doesn’t have the power to strike is meaningless. Until the pilots realize that the government isn’t going to arrest hole pilot group. Especially if the strike makes the media shines the light on all the down coming in government, management, and RLA. However I am a realist and we as pilots don’t have the @#@#@ to do this. So till we grow a pair or change career we should just vent our frustrations in a blog and see our futures dwindle away.

You might ask APA what happens when "the entire pilot group" violates the RLA. They did a sick-out and it cost them $10 million in fines and almost bankrupted their union. The fact that you can get them to do it is moot. It's against the law and if you do it your union will pay, and your union's officers can go to jail if the feds can pin it on them.