UND owned Citation has double engine failure, none hurt.

[avbug]

The crappy part is the state patrol was in such a hurry to get it off the road, they tied a chain to the tail and started dragging it off (the damage from that looked just as bad as the nose). Or so he said.

The state police don't tow vehicles. Weather a tow service did the damage or not, isn't relevant...as it wasn't impatient state police towing the aircraft. They don't do that.

I work with the pilot and two of the crewmembers. They were doing an icing study. Ice collected on nose cone, broke off into both engines. Definately not a fuel issue.

Well how about that, folks? So much for speculation, that hallmark of professionalism.

 

[Fly_Chick]

FORT YUKON...

"This was an emergency crash, not an emergency landing," Provenzano said.
-- Anchorage Daily News

What is the difference between an 'emergency crash' and an 'emergency landing'?

 

[FN FAL]

What is the difference between an 'emergency crash' and an 'emergency landing'?

the emergency landing occurs at the emergency runway, which just happens to be co-located at the emergency airport.

 

[mattpilot]

Yea, I suppose the state patrol should have waited until engineers from cessna came out to supervise the removal of the wings and the loading of the airframe onto a flat bed truck, before they let motor vehicle traffic flow on that highway again.

NTSB 830.10 (b)

 

[FN FAL]

NTSB 830.10 (b)

Excellent citation, but look for the citation.

I hand looked through the NTSB files for 2002 and didn't find an accident that matched up with...

I think I saw this plane in Kingsman, AZ. I was walking out to our plane for my multi checkride and the examiner pointed out a citation sitting there with the nose gear missing, radome all scrapped up and the tail section all torn up. Said the guy (single pilot) departed the Phoenix area for Vegas and ran out of fuel 20 mins later. Set up for landing on the highway and waited to clear a semi before dropping the gear, only the gear didn't make it all the way down before he landed. The crappy part is the state patrol was in such a hurry to get it off the road, they tied a chain to the tail and started dragging it off (the damage from that looked just as bad as the nose). Or so he said.

I did a search for all accidents/incidents in AZ from 2000 to 2005, which returned 14 pages. None of which reflected an NTSB report for a Cessna Citation.

I'll let you in on a little secret. An FAA employee crashed one of our skydiver airplanes and flipped it on its back. The owner of the plane and the FAA guy were both very close collegues of mine. The plane was destroyed beyond repair and was only salvageable as scrap. In fact, the owner of the plane had to threaten a lawsuit against the skydiving club, just to break even.

Considering that this crash made the papers, considering that the pilot got a lump on his head and had to get looked at by EMT's including a trip to the hospital, considering the plane was destroyed, considering the pilot was FAA and probably had to make a health insurance claim, considering that the parachute club had to pay the difference after the plane was totalled out for salvage, considering that the reason the plane crashed was engine stoppage, don't you think there would be an NTSB report?

I have the newspaper article handy. I know the people involved. I flew that plane at that club. There is no NTSB report...

There is no NTSB report on this Citation at Kingsman AZ either. It probably landed on the highway like what's his name said. The state patrol called HQ, HQ looked in the policy manual then called the Attorney Generals office. The AG probably called the FAA and the FAA probably said drag it to the side of the road.

 

[A Squared]

Excellent citation, but look for the citation.

I hand looked through the NTSB files for 2002 and didn't find an accident that matched up with...



I did a search for all accidents/incidents in AZ from 2000 to 2005, which returned 14 pages. None of which reflected an NTSB report for a Cessna Citation.

I'll let you in on a little secret. An FAA employee crashed one of our skydiver airplanes and flipped it on its back. The owner of the plane and the FAA guy were both very close collegues of mine. The plane was destroyed beyond repair and was only salvageable as scrap. In fact, the owner of the plane had to threaten a lawsuit against the skydiving club, just to break even.

Considering that this crash made the papers, considering that the pilot got a lump on his head and had to get looked at by EMT's including a trip to the hospital, considering the plane was destroyed, considering the pilot was FAA and probably had to make a health insurance claim, considering that the parachute club had to pay the difference after the plane was totalled out for salvage, considering that the reason the plane crashed was engine stoppage, don't you think there would be an NTSB report?

I have the newspaper article handy. I know the people involved. I flew that plane at that club. There is no NTSB report...

There is no NTSB report on this Citation at Kingsman AZ either. It probably landed on the highway like what's his name said. The state patrol called HQ, HQ looked in the policy manual then called the Attorney Generals office. The AG probably called the FAA and the FAA probably said drag it to the side of the road.

In the case of the citation it may have only been an incident, not an accident. You essentially have a landing with the nose gear up (if I understand correctly) albeit, on a highway. Frequently, a gear up landing is not classified an accident

 

[Hand Commander]

I did a search for all accidents/incidents in AZ from 2000 to 2005, which returned 14 pages. None of which reflected an NTSB report for a Cessna Citation.

I'll let you in on a little secret. An FAA employee crashed one of our skydiver airplanes and flipped it on its back. The owner of the plane and the FAA guy were both very close collegues of mine. The plane was destroyed beyond repair and was only salvageable as scrap. In fact, the owner of the plane had to threaten a lawsuit against the skydiving club, just to break even.

Considering that this crash made the papers, considering that the pilot got a lump on his head and had to get looked at by EMT's including a trip to the hospital, considering the plane was destroyed, considering the pilot was FAA and probably had to make a health insurance claim, considering that the parachute club had to pay the difference after the plane was totalled out for salvage, considering that the reason the plane crashed was engine stoppage, don't you think there would be an NTSB report?

I have the newspaper article handy. I know the people involved. I flew that plane at that club. There is no NTSB report...

There is no NTSB report on this Citation at Kingsman AZ either. It probably landed on the highway like what's his name said. The state patrol called HQ, HQ looked in the policy manual then called the Attorney Generals office. The AG probably called the FAA and the FAA probably said drag it to the side of the road.

I did the same search I ended up with same result. No record of a citation in AZ at that time. I was there in May 2002 and know what I saw. I do have a fuzzy recollection of some guys in black suits and sunglasses asking me to stare at their little silver pen thing......Next thing I know I'm back home with a multi engine rating in my pocket. Seems weird. Maybe I'll call up my retired FBI buddies, Agent Moulder and Agent Scully, and get them on the case.

It actually doesn't meet any of the reportable criteria in Part 830 except for maybe sustained loss of power or thrust produced by two or more engines, but thats only for airplanes 12,500 and higher. Lucky guy, I guess.

 

[spngbobsqrpilot]

I do have a fuzzy recollection of some guys in black suits and sunglasses asking me to stare at their little silver pen thing......Next thing I know I'm back home with a multi engine rating in my pocket.

Wow! The same thing happened to me but when I got home I got an ATP ticky out of it.

Man, you got hosed!

 

[FN FAL]

In the case of the citation it may have only been an incident, not an accident. You essentially have a landing with the nose gear up (if I understand correctly) albeit, on a highway. Frequently, a gear up landing is not classified an accident

Yea I hear ya on that one.

In another crash, I saw a C-340 banged up pretty good at Meigs about 6 years ago. The pilot buggered it up on the landing so hard that it popped windows out of their mounts and flexed the airframe hard enough to wrinke wing skins and dimple the fuselage above the wings. Also, they couldn't retract the flaps because of the wings being so badly flexed. I think both props had been bent back by the tips. There may have been nose wheel damage as well. This doctor's plane booboo never made the NTSB's either.

 

[check6]

Any idea where it's floating. . .

There is a video floating around showing UND's Citation after landing after one of their experiments with icing, the amount of ice on it was unbelievable, I can't believe it flew.

That would be neat to see. I've heard a lot of good stuff about NASA's icing video as well, anyone have a link?