Uncle Jerry's Visit to The ASA Crew Rm

[SkyNation]

Last night at a table full of pilots from other carriers, everyone seemed happy with Preferential Bidding. The junior guys said they got in open time to fix what they did not like with their awards.

I'll add my endorsement to that. Most folks I fly with agree-PBS is an improvement and provides lots of flexibility. If that is a sticking point for you guys in negotiations, it shouldn't be.

 

[sweptback]

I'll add my endorsement to that. Most folks I fly with agree-PBS is an improvement and provides lots of flexibility. If that is a sticking point for you guys in negotiations, it shouldn't be.

We don't have a problem with PBS. Any rational person knows that everything's going that way (especially since most airlines now are PBS already). ALPA just wants to make sure it is mutually agreeable and that it is as small of a concession as possible.

We already TA'd a pretty decent, if not industry leading, scheduling section. The last thing that should happen is for it to be compromised because of the switch to PBS.

It would be best for PBS to be negotiated as a side letter, as opposed to holding up the contract longer. That is one thing at least that both ALPA and the company mostly agree on.

 

[HelloNewman]

6 votes....yes, that is down in flames.

That 1999 drive was close. Look at the results of the 2004 union drive. Other union drives in the past also havent gone exceptionally well. One common factor is that toward the end of union drives it turns into a name calling and lecturing contest. Guys lecture you about how you "need" the union and call you all sorts of names if you disagree. I can tell myself what I need or don't need thank you very much. I am happy with PBS, I am happy with pay still around the top of the industry. I am happy with my schedule. I am happy with my life. Remember how the old saying goes if it's not broke then don't fix it.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Acutally it is 4-0, not 6. Prior to that, ALPA had not lost a vote that I remember. And even though I have called for ALPA's reform, ALPA would be the best choice to represent the SkyWest pilots at this time.

SkyWest has been the beneficiary of ALPA's battles for pay and working conditions. Jerry throws out bones to keep the SkyWest guys from seeking representation. However, with the size of SkyWest, can the pilot group continue to lag behind those who are trying to restore this profession?

The few SkyWest guys I know are stand up folks who are ready to bring leadership to our profession. ALPA is the way to join together to raise all of us to a higher standard.

 

[goahead]

God, is this thread still going. Let it go. We are going to be nothing in six months. Get your shi_t together and go somewhere else, otherwise you'll have a heart attack in a year or so. It's not worth it.

 

[SkyNation]

However, with the size of SkyWest, can the pilot group continue to lag behind those who are trying to restore this profession?

The few SkyWest guys I know are stand up folks who are ready to bring leadership to our profession. ALPA is the way to join together to raise all of us to a higher standard.

How are we 'lagging' behind?

What makes you think that a bunch of people totally new to ALPA (if we voted it in) would suddenly accomplish what no other regional represented by them has been able to up to now? and even if not suddenly, which it wouldn't be (try years to get a new contract), what makes you think that on our first try everything would be so much better-not just for us, but for 'our profession?'

 

[HelloNewman]

Acutally it is 4-0, not 6. Prior to that, ALPA had not lost a vote that I remember. And even though I have called for ALPA's reform, ALPA would be the best choice to represent the SkyWest pilots at this time.

SkyWest has been the beneficiary of ALPA's battles for pay and working conditions. Jerry throws out bones to keep the SkyWest guys from seeking representation. However, with the size of SkyWest, can the pilot group continue to lag behind those who are trying to restore this profession?

The few SkyWest guys I know are stand up folks who are ready to bring leadership to our profession. ALPA is the way to join together to raise all of us to a higher standard.

I would rather keep riding on the coat tails of ALPA then actually having them on our property. I am happy paying ZERO union dues. A higher standard? I think a large portion of us are already happy. A higher standard is making a good wage and not having to pay union dues.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

That 1999 drive was close. Look at the results of the 2004 union drive. Other union drives in the past also havent gone exceptionally well. One common factor is that toward the end of union drives it turns into a name calling and lecturing contest. Guys lecture you about how you "need" the union and call you all sorts of names if you disagree. I can tell myself what I need or don't need thank you very much. I am happy with PBS, I am happy with pay still around the top of the industry. I am happy with my schedule. I am happy with my life. Remember how the old saying goes if it's not broke then don't fix it.

1999 was the ALPA drive. 2004 was that Student Council In House Association or watever, and it indeed got slaughtered.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I would rather keep riding on the coat tails of ALPA then actually having them on our property. I am happy paying ZERO union dues. A higher standard? I think a large portion of us are already happy. A higher standard is making a good wage and not having to pay union dues.

Happy riding the coattails.....and we wonder what is wrong with this business.

GenX all the way. If WWII was on today, the world would be f ucked.

 

[~~~^~~~]

How are we 'lagging' behind?

...on our first try everything would be so much better-not just for us, but for 'our profession?'

The super easy answer to your question is the single pay rate. Other answers include the implementation of PBS without your input or consent.

To jack up a house, everyone must lift one corner at a time. It takes a coordinated effort. Holding up the profession is not being the low corner happy that things are "falling your way."

Isn't is obvious when airplanes are being stripped from one division of SkyWest and being awarded to another work group that one is undercutting the other? No one at SkyWest seems to believe that the transfers could go the other direction, but logic must tell you that it could happen.

Candidly, ASA pilots need help holding up our end of the house right now - if we don't get help, we may not be successful. If we are not successful, our failure will be taken to the SkyWest pilots in the form of concessions or aircraft transfers.

You know that Jerry Atkin is looking for "cheapest." I'm hopeful that we can remove pilot wages from the equation - put airplanes where it makes sense, period. Pilots don't buy airplanes. If you don't realize that it is to our benefit to organize and work together you just have not thought it through yet.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Why would it matter if the actual numbers were published? What harm could there be in publishing the number of nomination votes? Quit hiding information from the membership. 7 to 1 shows that the membership has doubts about our current strategy. This brings into doubt the information we are being fed about Wilson polling.

No, it shows that Lynn motivated all 67 of her supporters to vote, not any kind of mandate, but thanks for the SPIN you accuse all of us of. Oh and the same "birdie" must have talked to me, because I heard the 4 captain nominees got 67, 64, 47 and 45. So you can quit with the "7-1" baloney.

I'll bet that she only gets a little more than that in the general election.

 

[HelloNewman]

Happy riding the coattails.....and we wonder what is wrong with this business.

GenX all the way. If WWII was on today, the world would be f ucked.

It has worked for us for over 34 years. We aren't at the top of the industry but we are pretty darn close. There is more to compensation than just the payrates. I know you guys don't like that quote but thats the exact same quote people use to defend mainline for flying the 90 seat aircraft for less that we fly our 70-76 seat aircraft. Compare W-2s and you can bet we are fairly close to the top of the regional industry. As long as we can stay at this point without a union we are already winning the battle.

 

[SkyNation]

The super easy answer to your question is the single pay rate. Other answers include the implementation of PBS without your input or consent.

(sound of broken record playing) there's more to compensation than hourly rate-can't we get past that? I make more than an ASA pilot in my position-period.

PBS has enhanced my life. I have no problem with it.

Candidly, ASA pilots need help holding up our end of the house right now - if we don't get help, we may not be successful. If we are not successful, our failure will be taken to the SkyWest pilots in the form of concessions or aircraft transfers.

I understand that ASA pilots feel that they would be better off if we unionize. I am far from convinced that we would be.

You know that Jerry Atkin is looking for "cheapest." I'm hopeful that we can remove pilot wages from the equation - put airplanes where it makes sense, period. Pilots don't buy airplanes. If you don't realize that it is to our benefit to organize and work together you just have not thought it through yet.

I hope ya'll get what you want. I hope you don't cut off your nose to spite your face in the process.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It has worked for us for over 34 years. We aren't at the top of the industry but we are pretty darn close. There is more to compensation than just the payrates. I know you guys don't like that quote but thats the exact same quote people use to defend mainline for flying the 90 seat aircraft for less that we fly our 70-76 seat aircraft. Compare W-2s and you can bet we are fairly close to the top of the regional industry. As long as we can stay at this point without a union we are already winning the battle.

I was referring to the self-serving, narcissitic attitude reflected by the statement. Not the payrates.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

I would rather keep riding on the coat tails of ALPA then actually having them on our property. I am happy paying ZERO union dues. A higher standard? I think a large portion of us are already happy. A higher standard is making a good wage and not having to pay union dues.

I can think of another organism in biology that feeds off of others. You, Sir, are a leech. Please do not generalize this statement towards all Skywest pilots since only a miniscule amount of them share your lecherous attitude.

Hang your head in shame.