Unbiased Verbiage for Ticket Factory

[harrier]

Actually tonala2k, you are exactly right. I am not sure which type of school is what I want to address, or if I can manage to address both without too lengthy of a survey. When people say 'ticket factory' they generally mean any school that is known in the industry for handing out tickets. Originally, I started with the schools which focus on accelerated training, and/or training specifically for the airlines. Then, after speaking with several people, it seemed the bigger issue may be the part 141 schools or any school with an examiner on staff. The examiner on staff thing may be the uniting force.



My thesis is centered around CFI training and whether or not it is adequate. One big concern is CFI's trained at these schools get a checkride based on their knowledge and ability to fly, not their ability to teach. Several chief pilots have told me they simply stopped hiring CFI's from those schools. According to them, many of the interviewees interview horribly (when asked to teach steep turns, one interviewee said "I can't teach you on the ground, we have to be in a plane). When you have two applicants, one from a reputable school and one from a so called 'ticket factory', but otherwise the same...


My paper doesn't focus on so called 'ticket factories' but they are obviously an important concern for many which, if I don't address, I will have a big hole in the process of training quality CFI's.

 

[minitour]

One big concern is CFI's trained at these schools get a checkride based on their knowledge and ability to fly, not their ability to teach.

How do you propose to test "ability to teach" when most of the DPEs I've met probably have forgotten more about aviation than I'll ever learn?

I don't understand how someone "teaches" to someone with more knowledge than they have.

-mini

 

[FlyinFife]

How about "High Volume Training Centers"?

 

[harrier]

mini, can you tell if your teachers at school are good teachers when you don't yet know the information they are teaching you? Teaching is a recognizable skill. I should be able to ask you to teach me to make a hamburger, and at least get an idea of your ability to break down a concept and explain it. If you ask 10 people to explain something to you that you are very familiar with, you will get what I am saying. Teaching ability is apparent regardless of whether or not you know the subject matter. flyinfife, that's actually quite good! that may work out well. If I said "High Volume Training Centers" I believe most people would know the type of school I am referring to. Thank you!

 

[Tonala2k]

Harrier, you're on to something big! The CFI plague. "You can fly, but can you teach?" I've learned a lot from my chief CFI (been flying/teaching since WWII) What's crazy is that he'll still openly admit to his short comings that he's working on.

Minitour, I remember in high school I had several teachers who offered as extra credit assignments to go home and teach it to my parents and a sibling. It was tough teaching my parents because I couldn't get feed back as to whether they were learning, because they weren't. They knew it already. None the less, there was very little adaptation for teaching my little brother. And as harrier touched on, you're not proving knowledge, you're proving technique, and in doing so you may very well be teaching the examiner.

 

[minitour]

Minitour, I remember in high school I had several teachers who offered as extra credit assignments to go home and teach it to my parents and a sibling. It was tough teaching my parents because I couldn't get feed back as to whether they were learning, because they weren't. They knew it already. None the less, there was very little adaptation for teaching my little brother. And as harrier touched on, you're not proving knowledge, you're proving technique, and in doing so you may very well be teaching the examiner.

isn't the key point of teaching someone something when they learn it?

If the examiner (as your parents did) knows the info, they aren't learning anything.

JMHO

-mini

PS
by "high volume" do you mean lots of students or lots of dollars?

If a business has lots of students, does that make them a "high volume" center and therefore they aren't teaching CFIs how to teach by definition?

So we can deduce that successful businesses aren't really teaching CFI's how to teach...just to pass a checkride?

 

[Tonala2k]

So we can deduce that successful businesses aren't really teaching CFI's how to teach...just to pass a checkride?

harrier, I think this maybe the point your survey will either confirm or deny. In every industry there are businesses that grow beyond themselves at the cost of quality. Have we allowed flight schools to do the same? If that is the case, how can someone filter through to find a school that hasn't gotten too big for its britches. Obviously we can't base the answer on quantity of students or instructors alone. For some schools as few as fifty students may be too many, especially if they're working on a host of ratings and certificates.

He's my thought. I'll bet you'll find that the highest quality schools have the most number of full-time and long term instructors (Meaning those who'll be around for more than two years. i.e. Chief instructors/CFI, instructing management, and ground instructor) per student. Colleges and University would be a prime example of this.

 

[MauleSkinner]

How do you propose to test "ability to teach" when most of the DPEs I've met probably have forgotten more about aviation than I'll ever learn?

I don't understand how someone "teaches" to someone with more knowledge than they have.

-mini

I guess we need to clarify more terms than just "ticket factory"

What do you call the activity taking place during a CFI oral/checkride?

David

 

[minitour]

I guess we need to clarify more terms than just "ticket factory"

What do you call the activity taking place during a CFI oral/checkride?

David

"Demonstrating instructional knowledge"

-mini

 

[MauleSkinner]

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