UAL - will it go down?

[canyonblue]

so they effectively have the airline by the balls

I quess they do if a group of, as you put it, "skyhags" can mow down a major airline.

Maybe ALPA shouldn't of gave them the boot 50 years ago.

P.S. Before you fire back go read "Flying the line" pts 1&2

 

[HA25]

I have read the book, and I am a member in good standing of ALPA. But don't go down the road of comparing pilots and F/As. I won't even go there. From a professional standpoint they are night and day, apples and oranges.

Going on a 6 day trip, see you all later!

 

[Tweetybird]

UAL78 (et Al),

Thanks for working your A$$ of for the 844 of us out here. We/I really appreciate it. I've been flying my tail off with the good old USAF and watching diligently as our company's issues have followed the sin-wave. As a result of listening to the code-a-phone every day I realize what da^n hard work you and all the rest of the Pilots at UAL are doing to keep the company alive. Yeah, like always, I'm a big cheer-leader, but THANKS!

Cheers,

Tweetybird

AKA: Former UAL ThunderGuppy Jockey!

 

[shagadelic]

UAL78,
Just a question; I know the MEC has recommended the concessions, but as I understand from pilots I have jumpseated with this thing is far from a done deal. I'm not arguing pros or cons, just wondering what are your opinions on whether or not you guys will actually vote to approve these concessions? When does the vote close on this subject??

Thanks.

 

[banned username 1]

The vote is supposed to happen later this month. As I go around the system, I seem to hear most from the prople who are against it. I don't know if they're the vocal minority or what. I've gone back and forth seeing the merits of both sides of the argument, but as time goes by and outside pundits and events chime in, I don't see the option for us. Gang, it ain't the company that values the stock where it is. View that as a vote of confidence- or lack thereof. Somebody doesn't have much faith in you right now. Hello??!! Sure there are things in it that specific people won't like, but I view it as an important part of the puzzle in order to get UAL back on track financially- and right now, that's all that matters. And to be honest, these are less harsh concessions than I would have envisioned, given the current state of the industry. Finally, it doesn't kick in unless everybody else joins in the effort!! Read the tea leaves. What are the chances right now? Oh, and one more thing... why vote to officially depict yourselves as the selfish, uncaring prima donnas that the public (and some labor groups) think you are? DUH!!!??? The real question to me right now is WHY this is even a question?

If the majority of pilots turn the agreement down, they are playing a game of "Chicken" that I for one, don't feel comfortable at all in playing- but I guess I'll have no other choice. If they loose, they can take comfort in the fact that "they showed 'em" as we all take a 40% pay cut with NO contract whatsoever. Yeah, they "showed 'em", alright! I'll ride this bad-boy out because at long last, I'm very senior. But I do have real concern for my not-so-fortunate friends.

Compare it to the old gag, "bad breath is better than no breath at all". I think that sums it up pretty well.

UAL78

 

[dog]

UAL 78 I have a clarification for you. Not all or any of the other groups have to participate. This is directly from the ERP letter" the equitable and meaningful participation in the Company's recovery program by the Company's other labor groups on terms reasonably acceptable to the Association and Company: and...."
"In the event any of these conditions are not satisfied or waived by the Company and the Association on or before December 31, 2002" In other words Whiteferg can go at it on his own.

I also thing most folks would pass the ERP if it was a recovery plan..It is all the other stuff thrown in(gutting the contract) that folks have a problem with. Elimate the "gutting" and the thing will pass. BK issue is still there..with the ERP, BK gets delayed not avoided. As far as the stock price, unknown quanity. But, IMHO the fact we don't have a long term CEO and the same Senior "Management " making the same poor decisons (when they aren't following AA) and comments(Brace, Dutta) is a large part of the problem.

 

[banned username 1]

True, but without meaningful participation from the other groups, the cost benefits to the company are meaningless. We'd be p_ssing in the wind with that agreement trying to go it alone and Whiteford would be ill-advised to make that decision by himself without at least MEC direction much less membership ratification again. Though you are correct, the practicality of it remains only effective within the context of my posts.

Look for some of those mentioned to be sacrificial lambs in order to get everybody on board. Also, in order to attract anybody with the talent that we want, look for at least token statements from the other unions publically and probably strong assurances to a new guy privately. Because really, who'd want to come into this situation the way that it appears to everyone now?

Thanks.

UAL78

 

[P3-Adub]

So Dog, Whats your vote ???

Seems that a large number of our group would like to roll the dice on this issue ???? Am I the only one that thinks a known quantity is better than a FAT chance in these trying times ? Oh sure, we can all blame past management for past failures however this is water under the bridge as far as I am concerned. The big loser is gone and there have been changes in management. Lets look to the future and not dwell on the past because the present is certainly different from the summer of 2000. There is never a garauntee against BK however at least there will be a clear picture as to where we are headed instead of a continued "Force Majure" or "economic reasons beyond our control" approach that is presently in place right now. I am sure that all that are not affected or feel that they are untouchable in the face of future furloughs feel a little differently than I do however the health of the company and the future are both of my concerns and they affect you as well. I am sure that my opinion as well as 16 out of 19 LEC reps cannot be completely out of wack ? Remember, we're stock holders that means we're part owners of the company and the idea is to make it a succesful and profitable company.

Anyway, just curious.

 

[dog]

Re: So Dog, Whats your vote ???

If I had the opportunity to vote it would be NO, but since I'm on vacation that is not an option. Agreed that we can't live in the past, but currently I don't see any direction or plan to recover the airline. Dutta put out his six points to outsource/status quo but that will help us muddle around some more. The U code share appears to be a win for everyone as long as it doesn't morph into something more(revenue share etc). Would I be willing to cough up some coin to help "mangement" out, sure but what are they going to do with it? where is the plan.. they have to have a plan to qualify for the loan. P-3 what is the known quanity? FM would end for 9-11 but what happens if we go into Iraq? or another terriorst attack? I find it interesting that FM can end with a ratified ERP but doesn't if we say no..Either it is over or its not. There is alot of mistrust of management as well as the leadership of our union. Lots of untrues have been told the past several months, as well as cenorship of Anti-ERP material , etc. Opinions and knowledge are good. AS far as the 16-3 vote. Some of the 16 voted that way to send it out to the membership for ratification not endorsing it..how much of that is real true. I'm not sure. As a vacation guy I figure all I would "get" is longevity which is in there and the stock options is also a nice jesture.

Soapbox time
What we are lacking is leadership..Jack has vectored us in the general right direction but we need someone that will take the challenge to make UAL what it once was. I'm not to hip on someone who wants everyone in line before they take over. Idealist maybe, but I bet there is someone in the "club" who would be up to challenge. IMO if we had such an individual, someone who value their employees as assets rather than liabilities/cost, the people will get on board. The past few months of performance improvement is due to the rank and file making things work. It would be cool to see what we could do with a captain at the helm of the ship. sorry for the soap box ramblin..

Dog

 

[publisher]

reflections

This board basically reflects the problems that United has. Not only is their a lack of unity, there is a lack of spirit, and lastly a lack of leadership.

In a sinking ship, the crew can get together under some leadership and take steps that will maybe save the ship and get it back on course.

The second option is that the crew can go on an everyman for himself basis and start hoarding the wood themselves so they will have something to hold on to when the ship sinks. Their concentration on that will eliminate them considering other possibilities.

It is hard for a pilot making $300k to be critical of a FA making $75k a year. Are either worth that in the market, probably not.

When I had a flight attendant training school, we used to tell them that yes you are important in the safety aspect, however, if you are not successful in the customer service side, you will not have people who need you in the emergency/

That holds true here. If United does not start making the customer no 1 and spends all their time looking for wood, they will not get very far.

 

[Seeniner]

The Aug 12 Business Week has a one page article on UAL and bankruptcy possibilities.

Here are two blurbs:
"The IMA even put a lien on UAL's headquarters to secure $500 million in back pay the airline owes its member."

Then a reply to the labor cost issue from the president of the UAL FA council, "It's not our wages that are causing the problem."