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UAL - will it go down?

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look no further than 1-800-DEAR AFA to see the reality of the situation. That's their Code-A-Phone number for the union hotline. Unfortunately, you need a Flight Attendant employee number to have it playback to you and it would be improper to put one up for public consumption. Suffice it to say that you hear a little rhetoric poo-pooing the latest news reports and deflecting any sort of stares towards them in other directions. Otherwise, they're talking about filling out surveys regarding post-tramatic stress and how it's affecting them. If you fill yours out in a timely manner, you even could win one of 25 CD players!

Talk about heads in the sand!

Now, let's go back to college for a minute and re-visit Mr. Maslow and his hierarchy of values. They work equally well for an individual or an organization. Remember, basic survival is on the bottom and altruistic work is on the top. When times are good, you always flow from the bottom up, and vice-versa. To anybody that has a stake in this, you're going to fall somewhere in this pyrimid. As the situation gets more serious, the upper sections get discarded and attention paid to the more basic principles. Right now, I'd say we're about at the bottom two in the stack. To my friends and colleagues in the 844, I'd say that I (we) haven't forgotton about you and never will, but we have the airline itself to care for right now in order to have a place to recall you back to. BTW, I still truly believe that recalls will begin in 2003. UAL is not going to shrink, because we can't. We have to stay the size that we are and slog and fight our way out of this fix.

And we will.
 
V7,
I'm know your upset about the F/A's but there behavior is nothing new. Remember there lack of participation in the ESOP. Enough said, F/A will always be takers and not givers. Its just a fact of life and it's too late in the game to get upset about it.

Sincerely,
One of the 844
 
I was there during the ESOP and I know exactly what you are talking about. I wanted to participate becuase I understood corporate finance and the situation at hand. With no UAL, there are no jobs at UAL!

Today, I think that the AFA has really shown its colors.

AMR and UAL both must continue to seek marketshare or they will be horibly punished in the market, this is why ultimately they will both recall pilots. No airline can survive by shrinking. This has been proven over and over.

I sure hope Greenspan drops rates by .50 next meeting!
 
Sad that they will be the ones that suffer the most if and when the ship goes down.

UAL78

How do you figure that? I think you'd agree that the pilots at UAL have far more invested in their careers than the flight attendants. Look at the Eastern guys. That's what happens when your airline tanks, you go to another airline after having as many as 20 years seniority, and you start at the bottom.

The average F/A just doesn't have that much invested in this airline. Many have made careers of it, but a far, far lower percentage than with the pilots.
 
All true, but...

there are a zillion ways to look at it. Here's one: honestly, and I don't wish to hurt anybody's feelings or insult anyone, but what marketable skill has being a flight attendant given a person over let's say... a 15 year career? Also, what job can a flight attendant do that would give them the same pay and benefits that they have as working as a flight attendant? Most people conform to the lifestyle that their income affords them. When the real world hits them, they're going to be looking at a lot of 20K per year jobs. Now I do remember my stint on the bricks too, and there is some truth to the fact that there is nothing more useless than a pilot without an airplane. Yes, pilots have a lot to lose, but you'll also notice that when "the rubber meets the road" the pilots are the first (and so far, only) ones that have voluntarily moved to protect their careers.

Another way to view it would be that there are too many $$ in assets sitting out there in the form of airplanes to just continue sitting out there. There would be a giant sucking sound for the void to be filled- planes have to be flown and pilots have the skill. True, cabins have to be staffed by flight attendants, but do they have to be staffed by THOSE flight attendants? Let's face it, the industry is watching to see who the "troublemakers and knuckleheads" are (I'm going to live to regret that statement) and sadly, a lot of fine people are going to be painted by a very broad brush. In this economy it's far easier to replace a cabin crewmember that's viewed as being from a group of "Non-Team-Players" than it is a flight deck crewmember that at least tried to "play ball".

You're absolutely correct about the pilots having a lot to lose. That's why they're doing something about it. It's also true that many in the IAM having a lot to lose. That's why it's so puzzling to this writer that they're so adamant against joining in the recovery effort.

In my previous post, I contemplated the relative seniority and marketable skills of the various job groups versus their acknowledgement of a problem and willingness to do their share.
I don't think UAL will vanish. If that were the case, of course I'd put the pilots right at the top as far as having the most to lose. In the more probable scenario, the less skilled (sorry) and more junior in the ranks of their job group get shafted. Those are unfortunately...the very ones going along, business as usual.

Clear as mud, eh?

and I stand by my "recalls in '03" forecast

UAL78
 
V70T5 said:
so they effectively have the airline by the balls


I quess they do if a group of, as you put it, "skyhags" can mow down a major airline.

Maybe ALPA shouldn't of gave them the boot 50 years ago.

P.S. Before you fire back go read "Flying the line" pts 1&2
 
I have read the book, and I am a member in good standing of ALPA. But don't go down the road of comparing pilots and F/As. I won't even go there. From a professional standpoint they are night and day, apples and oranges.

Going on a 6 day trip, see you all later!
 
UAL78 (et Al),

Thanks for working your A$$ of for the 844 of us out here. We/I really appreciate it. I've been flying my tail off with the good old USAF and watching diligently as our company's issues have followed the sin-wave. As a result of listening to the code-a-phone every day I realize what da^n hard work you and all the rest of the Pilots at UAL are doing to keep the company alive. Yeah, like always, I'm a big cheer-leader, but THANKS!

Cheers,

Tweetybird

AKA: Former UAL ThunderGuppy Jockey!
 
UAL78,
Just a question; I know the MEC has recommended the concessions, but as I understand from pilots I have jumpseated with this thing is far from a done deal. I'm not arguing pros or cons, just wondering what are your opinions on whether or not you guys will actually vote to approve these concessions? When does the vote close on this subject??

Thanks.
 
The vote is supposed to happen later this month. As I go around the system, I seem to hear most from the prople who are against it. I don't know if they're the vocal minority or what. I've gone back and forth seeing the merits of both sides of the argument, but as time goes by and outside pundits and events chime in, I don't see the option for us. Gang, it ain't the company that values the stock where it is. View that as a vote of confidence- or lack thereof. Somebody doesn't have much faith in you right now. Hello??!! Sure there are things in it that specific people won't like, but I view it as an important part of the puzzle in order to get UAL back on track financially- and right now, that's all that matters. And to be honest, these are less harsh concessions than I would have envisioned, given the current state of the industry. Finally, it doesn't kick in unless everybody else joins in the effort!! Read the tea leaves. What are the chances right now? Oh, and one more thing... why vote to officially depict yourselves as the selfish, uncaring prima donnas that the public (and some labor groups) think you are? DUH!!!??? The real question to me right now is WHY this is even a question?

If the majority of pilots turn the agreement down, they are playing a game of "Chicken" that I for one, don't feel comfortable at all in playing- but I guess I'll have no other choice. If they loose, they can take comfort in the fact that "they showed 'em" as we all take a 40% pay cut with NO contract whatsoever. Yeah, they "showed 'em", alright! I'll ride this bad-boy out because at long last, I'm very senior. But I do have real concern for my not-so-fortunate friends.

Compare it to the old gag, "bad breath is better than no breath at all". I think that sums it up pretty well.

UAL78
 
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