Ual T/a?

[waveflyer]

You assume that's how it would have to work. Grandfather it in...
What- you agree- but not willing to work on it? Don't you rail against that attitude? Can't you work on two things at once... submit a proposal- take you 10minutes. Get the decision makers behind it and the idea can gain traction from there

 

[waveflyer]

$43/hour doesn't pay a mortgage easily enough to ward off that concessionary contract and you know it.

Comparing 1st year pay is like comparing Regional FO wages-- yours may be industry standard- but it's a lower wage than any professional 1 year out of college i guarantee. And that's the point... if bills can be paid- than pilots will be more likely to strike, vote down concessions, walk away...etc etc...

we're hitting a point where wages are getting so low management knows we won't walk away - b/c we wouldn't be able to survive

 

[PCL_128]

You assume that's how it would have to work. Grandfather it in...

I'm not assuming anything. I'm going by what you've posted so far: averaging the rates from the first 5 years. What do you mean now by "grandfathering?"

What- you agree- but not willing to work on it?

I'm willing to work on good ideas that workable. A single industry-wide seniority list is a good idea, but it's not workable, so I won't waste time working on that. If you can explain to me how to make this idea workable, then I'll be behind you 100%.

Can't you work on two things at once... submit a proposal- take you 10minutes. Get the decision makers behind it and the idea can gain traction from there

Again, I don't think it's that big of an issue here. If we just get a COLA increase for our current first year rate then we'll already be industry-leading in first year pay. We aren't starting from the same point on first year pay that the legacies are. Our bigger issue is 2+ year FO pay.

 

[waveflyer]

somebody else explain "grandfathering" .... (ok i'll do it- meaning everybody hired from now on gets the new pay rate... that's not nearly as unsolvable as a national list- just think a bit, huh?)

you're doing exactly what you complain about the membership.... Does low first year pay take away leverage? That's the question. You agree it does- so work on it. You're waiting for me to provide all the solutions... to me- if we recognize problems and work together=- we'll figure it out... but we don't stop recognizing problems b/c we don't have all the details worked out from the beginning.

 

[waveflyer]

$43 is an issue=- it needs to be up near $60-$70 to have the desired affect.

 

[waveflyer]

First year pay at United is around 14 months or more. Clock starts ticking a year from your checkride.

Chairman!

Am i hearing that right? From the checkride? Are you not employees from day 1?

 

[PCL_128]

somebody else explain "grandfathering" .... (ok i'll do it- meaning everybody hired from now on gets the new pay rate... that's not nearly as unsolvable as a national list- just think a bit, huh?)

That might be a workable way to handle it. You should draft a resolution and bring it to your next Local Council meeting.

but we don't stop recognizing problems b/c we don't have all the details worked out from the beginning.

We also don't go full speed ahead without thinking things through. People that just dive in without enough forethought can cause big problems within unions. Things can have many unintended consequence. Always thoroughly research and debate ideas before steaming ahead.

 

[PCL_128]

$43 is an issue=- it needs to be up near $60-$70 to have the desired affect.

With COLA, it would become about $50, which is where DAL is also. I think that's a good starting point, and aiming for $70 is probably unworkable.

 

[Chairman]

You are employed day one your seniority date. Your longevity date for pay raises starts at your checkride.

 

[waveflyer]

With COLA, it would become about $50, which is where DAL is also. I think that's a good starting point, and aiming for $70 is probably unworkable.

Averaging at Delta works to be more than $70. I won't have to tell you what FedEx would be. Remember you're giving up pay raises in later years for pay now- so it's not as unrealistic as you'd think. Making this change would change a lot of the dynamics of the airlines- and that's the point.

I am drafting a resolution-
but unable to draft such a resolution at Air Tran- can you do me a favor and do one over there? Chairman- maybe you can do one at United?

That's an amazing scam btw chairman- ridiculous< whoever signed off on that

 

[PCL_128]

but unable to draft such a resolution at Air Tran- can you do me a favor and do one over there?

Sorry, but I'm still a probie here. No resolutions from me.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

you're doing exactly what you complain about the membership.... Does low first year pay take away leverage? That's the question. You agree it does- so work on it. You're waiting for me to provide all the solutions... to me- if we recognize problems and work together=- we'll figure it out... but we don't stop recognizing problems b/c we don't have all the details worked out from the beginning.

Part II waveflyer....

After you get everyone to agree to work on problems... its the working the problems out that is difficult.

This is where leadership comes into play. The issues are nothing and will always be there. Its keeping people focused on the task at hand that requires leadership.

If you and PCL have a difference of opinion as you've just had... then imagine 60,000 pilots trying work out thier problems.

Imagine 300MM Americans in trying to work out their problems. 100's of countries...

Leaders should not and cannot force particiaption. However, a leaders job once particaption is agreed upon, is to keep everyone together, focused on the task and completing the job. In this regard ALPA's leadership has been lacking... but we still got to show up to be lead..