UAL Progress/Mood ?

[canyonblue]

If anyone caught Kudlow and Kramer on cable last night they had Mr. Bethune on from Continental. It was an interesting segment about United and Mr. Bethune's view that they should NOT be given the loan gaurantees due to the fact that they are facing financial problems not because of 9/11 but because they have failed to compete in the open market.

Yea, and here's what else he had to say:

Continental CEO: No problem for travelers if United 'disappears'

Continental Airlines CEO Gordon Bethune is known for speaking his mind, and he didn't disappoint in a one-on-one interview with The Newark (N.J.) Star-Ledger. He saved one of his juiciest comments on the prospects of a collapse by reeling United Airlines. "If they have to shut down like Swissair did, I know we have a number of furloughed employees we'd be glad to recall, and I'd be glad to pull some airplanes out of the desert," he said. "I know American and Delta have thousands of furloughed employees, and we all have plenty of capacity. We'll be more than happy to fly all your passengers at Christmas time. Don't you worry, as an industry, there are plenty of seats out there. The country won't be disadvantaged if they disappear." The newspaper also revealed that Bethune was courted by United earlier this year, although he rebuffed the nation's No. 2 carrier to remain at Continental. "What kind of guy would do that, leave all your friends here for 30 pieces of silver," he said. "This is our team."

 

[ninepilot]

Re: Bethune's comments

Last time I checked we lived in a capitalist society. If you want your company to succeed, it may be at the expense of others. As much as I'd hate to see all my buds at United jobless, now more than ever it's time to look out for #1. Bethune just stated (tastelessly) what the best outcome would be in order for his company to get ahead. It would also probably enable my company to recall me. I humbly agree with Mr Bethune.

--(ex)ninepilot

 

[LiveFreeorDie]

Unions and Capitolism don't mix.

I bought a ticket for Christmas. Didn't care what the pilot thought a worthy wage was. If he thinks he is worth more than RJ pilot's pay -- he should get another job. I searched for a low fare. SWA was too many connections. Majors too expensive. Went to price line. Got my ticket. When the price offered = price I was willing to pay there was a sale. These airline pilots must be from the column hired with out college degree. This is just basic economics. Capitolism. The unions are socialist -- everyone is equal. Unions get higher wages than value they add. Look at the UAW. $25 per hour for filling a radiator with fluid -- no joke. United and Delta got great contracts three years ago that killed their airlines. Our tax dollars shouldn't bail them out. No one owes the furloughed airline pilots a job. I am also an out of work pilot. I went out and got a job. If I don't like the wage I should get educated, or start a business, or marry someone rich. It isn't the public who need to go to school. It is the airlines.

Good luck to y'all in this brave new world.

 

[FBUCK]

ninepilot you ignorant slut

"now more than ever it's time to look out for #1. Bethune just stated (tastelessly) what the best outcome would be in order for his company to get ahead. It would also probably enable my company to recall me. I humbly agree with Mr Bethune."

Nine your comets can only lead me to one conclusion: you are a one way buddy fu$#ing, Semper me, turd. I can not believe any pilot would wish the destruction of another’s company that would put 80,000 people out of work, just to better himself. Especially when some of those people are probably your former Air Force buddies / squadron mates. Although I wonder if someone like you had any buddies.

I have been furloughed for over a year now, and I do not wish that on anyone. It sucks!! I especially do not wish bad for others so that I may gain from it. You have obviously slimed your way into the take care of me, screw everyone else mentality.

United will survive one way or another. I hope that you are recalled to your airline as well. Although I feel sorry for those that will fly with you and thank God It won’t be me.

Later Richard.

 

[dispatchguy]

Re: Unions and Capitolism don't mix.

United and Delta got great contracts three years ago that killed their airlines. Our tax dollars shouldn't bail them out.
Good luck to y'all in this brave new world.

In UALs case, I firmly agree.

I am a former UAL employee, worked in OPBCM (UAL speak for the pilot crew desk) during the Summer of Love (Summer of 2000).

I wish nothing but good luck to my former colleagues - I know many people at UAL, in CHIDD, OPBCM, OPBWX, and a few other places.

UALs problem was incompetent senior management in the Goodwin era, and its legacy. I was working the ORD 767 crew desk the day the USAir merger was announced. Before the announcement, a friend of mine who was a CS lead at LAS, said that his station had had visits from VP after VP all saying the same thing "expect a major announcement in the west." His assumption was was the UAL-AWE merger was back on (there had been very strong rumors to that effect in the late 90s).

When it was announced, I was dumbstruck. I looked at the relative seat/mile costs. At the time, UAL was floating around 9 cents/mile - US was near 13 cpm. I couldnt believe it. Why in the hell would management propose a merger with the most expensive (in seat/mile costs) domestic airline? What crack were they smoking? They were in the middle of the most rancorous labor negotiation with the pilot group in their history, one which made 1985 look pleasant (according to the OPBCM old timers who had been around then).

During the Spring of 2000, all UAL non-union employees received what was called the "Vision 2000" pay realignment. At OPBCM, my salary jumped from around 28k to nearly 41k. I was happy. However, a very senior crew controller who had been around since dirt said "Dont go out and spend this raise. The only reason they can afford this is that were carrying full boats, we can tick off thousands of people a day, but it doesnt matter. BUT, the second the ecomony goes south, and it will, THIS company will be in a severe world of hurt." Very prophetic.

The Summer of Love cost UAL millions, in lost revenue due to the cancellations, lost shareholder value (due to the USAir announcement), and ill will. I talk to local travel agents around here at home and some still wont book UAL three years later.

All of the groups at UAL are responsible, for there is enough to go around. The UAL ALPA MEC, management, the PAFCA contract (starting dispatcher pay around 60k a year before the givebacks, topping out over 100K after 12 years), the AFA, all of the contracted groups - setting the bar high is nice, but in the end, was getting industry leading contracts worth it all? I remember when the Contract 2000 was ratified, and we were all happy that we could get back to running an airline - how wonderful to know that all the blood, sweat, and tears from the Summer of Love has all been essentially negated.

 

[ninepilot]

FBUCK said, "...Nine your comets can only lead me to one conclusion: you are a one way buddy fu$#ing, Semper me, turd."

Wow, quite a scathing reply. I'll try to hold back my tears. I think we all know that UAL will not disappear. The fact of the matter is that right now there is too much capacity, so a reduction in the number of airlines might be good for the industry. However, the government, citizens, labor, and management are not about to let that happen at United (or any other major).
Let's consider another different (though related) industry: building the airliners. Boeing has laid off around 20,000 people and just announced 5000 more. Why? Besides the obvious decrease/cancellations of orders, Airbus is selling their product for a cheaper than normal, solely to try and get marketshare from Boeing. Do you think Airbus management should stop this dastardly scheme? No, it's just business.
Last time I checked, all the airlines are extremely competitive businesses. They will (and should) do anything they can in order to make more money for their shareholders. This includes Mr. Bethune's ploy which is apparently to try and influence the decision-makers on the Air Transport Stabilization Board with some tasteless comments about his competitors. It's just business.
I do not wish the destruction of any airline, but I can't fault Bethune for his comments. My own myopic view-through-a-straw of the airline business is probably way off target anyways. I just hope the economy rebounds and we can all get back to work sooner rather than later.
(ex)ninepilot

 

[FBUCK]

Nine, it does not surprise me to hear that someone like you is on the verge of tears, but be strong. I felt the need to reply to your original post because of it’s content. You basically said you would like to see United go under so that you could be recalled quicker. That is what I took issue with and responded to. Your response does not address this issue at all and goes off on some ridiculous comparison to competition between aircraft manufactures. This has nothing to do with competition, and everything to do with you wishing for a company to fold and 80,000 people to be out of work so you can benefit. You obviously do not see the disgusting selfishness in this comment and way of thinking, and probably never will.

AMF Richard