UAL MEC tough stance on Scope---keep it up!

[JoeMerchant]

Just for the sake of historical accuracy...United was sued in the mid 1980's by a handful of women pilots who applied and were not hired. United lost the lawsuit and were mandated by the courts to hire one non (white male) for every one white male hired for two years. This could be a woman or minority pilot. Prior to his lawsuit there were very few non white male airline pilots. Statistically there were also very few ATP rated pilots in the US that were not white males.

The resolution took place in 1989 and 1990, and the infamous Nancy Stuke was hired to run the pilot hiring department for the next decade. Even after the two year window - hiring practices obviously did not return to the past. They were revised at other airlines as well when they realized they were vulnerable to the same lawsuits. Count the number of women pilots at Delta, American, Southwest and Fedex prior to 1990 - I doubt there were 30 between all four of these carriers. Minorities a similar story.

As a result of this US Federal court ruling - there were a group of pilots hired with lower times than the prevailing norm. This same situation occurred in the mid 1960's when United could not find qualified airline pilot candidates due to the Vietnam war. They went around to college campuses, "enlisting" engineering students with the offer of a job if they would get their commercial rating by the following year Furthermore,l they paid them for the rating and hired them when they got it. This group had a stellar career track and paid almost NO dues. The vast majority of these pilots gained the experience and were perfectly fine in the airline system.

Later pilots spent a decade in the FE seat or FO seat (or both when things slowed down in the 80's and 90's, and had no career progression even though they had paid huge dues and were eminently qualified when hired.

There were a statistical handful of the first group that made it though training and should not have - and they have been a legal hassle ever since. It is this extremely small group that pilots with a chip on their shoulder or a stalled career like to refer to when explaining the raw deal they have. When I was hired at United in the late 90's, it was interesting to scan the dozens of photos of all the new hire classes and realize that despite the rhetoric and forced hiring revisions - the VAST majority of pilots hired at United were white males. I am sure that an overwhelming number of ATP's being white males was a fundamental cause.

In any case there will always be opportunities for non-white males that pursue the profession as their diversity is just one more arrow in the quiver when trying to stand out from the herd.

PS I am a white American of Irish descent and proud of it. There was a day when dogs and Irishmen weren't allowed in restaurants in the city of Boston.

Things change. Life isn't fair. Deal with it.

That may all be true, but your MEC Chairman just said that United Express pilots aren't as qualified or professional as United pilots when you just admitted that isn't necessarily true....Despite the reason, United has hired some very questionable pilots and the United MEC Chairwoman doesn't need to be calling into question the qualifications of United Express pilots...

 

[eaglesview]

That may all be true, but your MEC Chairman just said that United Express pilots aren't as qualified or professional as United pilots when you just admitted that isn't necessarily true....Despite the reason, United has hired some very questionable pilots and the United MEC Chairwoman doesn't need to be calling into question the qualifications of United Express pilots...

The UAL court order took place in the 1989/1990 time frame. Most, not all, of the Regional pilots were still in pre school. Try to keep it real.

 

[UALRATT]

Just for the sake of historical accuracy...United was sued in the mid 1980's by a handful of women pilots who applied and were not hired. United lost the lawsuit and were mandated by the courts to hire one non (white male) for every one white male hired for two years. This could be a woman or minority pilot. Prior to his lawsuit there were very few non white male airline pilots. Statistically there were also very few ATP rated pilots in the US that were not white males.

The resolution took place in 1989 and 1990, and the infamous Nancy Stuke was hired to run the pilot hiring department for the next decade. Even after the two year window - hiring practices obviously did not return to the past. They were revised at other airlines as well when they realized they were vulnerable to the same lawsuits. Count the number of women pilots at Delta, American, Southwest and Fedex prior to 1990 - I doubt there were 30 between all four of these carriers. Minorities a similar story.

As a result of this US Federal court ruling - there were a group of pilots hired with lower times than the prevailing norm. This same situation occurred in the mid 1960's when United could not find qualified airline pilot candidates due to the Vietnam war. They went around to college campuses, "enlisting" engineering students with the offer of a job if they would get their commercial rating by the following year Furthermore,l they paid them for the rating and hired them when they got it. This group had a stellar career track and paid almost NO dues. The vast majority of these pilots gained the experience and were perfectly fine in the airline system.

Later pilots spent a decade in the FE seat or FO seat (or both when things slowed down in the 80's and 90's, and had no career progression even though they had paid huge dues and were eminently qualified when hired.

There were a statistical handful of the first group that made it though training and should not have - and they have been a legal hassle ever since. It is this extremely small group that pilots with a chip on their shoulder or a stalled career like to refer to when explaining the raw deal they have. When I was hired at United in the late 90's, it was interesting to scan the dozens of photos of all the new hire classes and realize that despite the rhetoric and forced hiring revisions - the VAST majority of pilots hired at United were white males. I am sure that an overwhelming number of ATP's being white males was a fundamental cause.

In any case there will always be opportunities for non-white males that pursue the profession as their diversity is just one more arrow in the quiver when trying to stand out from the herd.

PS I am a white American of Irish descent and proud of it. There was a day when dogs and Irishmen weren't allowed in restaurants in the city of Boston.

Things change. Life isn't fair. Deal with it.

Murk, I think there is some confusion in the information you posted above. In fact, the case of minority hiring or lack thereof was brought against UAL by the Justice Department in 1973. UAL was ordered to "make up for lost time" by hiring blacks at twice the percentage of previous black applicants. In 1988 the Equal Employment Opportunities Commission (EEOC), after a number of congressional hearing due to the lack of oversight in the court ordered affirmative action case, and federal agencies looking the other way, went back to court against the airline on behalf of hundreds of rejected blacks and women.

It should be noted that after the '73 ruling, UAL continued its practice of limiting hiring of black pilots, instead hiring mostly white females. It was after the 1988 ruling that actual quotas were placed on the airline to recruit across the broad spectrum of other minorities making up the American population.

Several other precedented cases against UAL included age discrimination include (Smallwood vs UAL), and applicant disabilities discrimination (Sutton vs UAL).

Now back to the original post... SCOPE!! SCOPE!! SCOPE it is.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Scope scope scope scope scope...

 

[Hvy]

At least they brought good beer.....

No...no.....they drank all of the beer....

 

[eaglesview]

Scope scope scope scope scope...

That is number 1 bar none. Scope is money, Scope is job security.

 

[sleeves]

Scope scope scope scope scope...

Yep,yep,yep,yep,yep!!!