UAL MEC tough stance on Scope---keep it up!

[doh]

General, you need to go back a couple of pages and see what Yogi is talking about. The issue being discussed is super seniority for pay purposes for displaced regional captains. Originally proposed by Rez, this would give, for example, an 18 year regional captain who gets hired at mainline 5th year pay. Yogi is responding to the impracticality of this.

 

[Hvy]

Yogi, you are having a hard time understanding Johnsonrod. UAL and CAL MECs have their companies in a corner right now. Big bonuses are at stake, for management and the people putting this merger together. They want it clean, and they are WALL ST. That means less negotiating, and more taking back. That is also called leverage. You need to look it up in negotiating books it seems. When one side has LEVERAGE, that side usually gets a lot more of what they want. The time is now.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Unfortunately, much of the "perceived" leverage came and went with the very speedy DOJ approval. Oct. 01 and it's a done deal. 3 months earlier than expected. ALPA got caught flat-footed AGAIN with that approval. Now, it all depends on whether or not management is satisfied with the synergies created by the merger without the pilots on board VS. the projected synergies with the pilots on board. We'll know more in a few days which way they are leaning.

But back to the earlier statement by "Rez," saying that "management would pay for 5th year rates for new hire RJ pilots." Are you brand new to this industry?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

General, you need to go back a couple of pages and see what Yogi is talking about. The issue being discussed is super seniority for pay purposes for displaced regional captains. Originally proposed by Rez, this would give, for example, an 18 year regional captain who gets hired at mainline 5th year pay. Yogi is responding to the impracticality of this.

Nope... I said nothing of seniority... rather longevity....

For purposes up bidding better equipment as FOs, schedules, QOL.. the mainline pilots are better off than the RJ pilot who comes over...

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

Yogi, you are having a hard time understanding Johnsonrod. UAL and CAL MECs have their companies in a corner right now. Big bonuses are at stake, for management and the people putting this merger together. They want it clean, and they are WALL ST. That means less negotiating, and more taking back. That is also called leverage. You need to look it up in negotiating books it seems. When one side has LEVERAGE, that side usually gets a lot more of what they want. The time is now.


Bye Bye--General Lee

GL,

We may have leverage, but what I am saying is, mainline pilots are not going to spend one once of leverage (aka negotiating capital) to help regional pilots coming over to get 5th year pay. Please read the thread before you respond. Negotiating capital is leverage. Whomever has more negotiating capital has more leverage.

Yogi

 

[HHH]

Nope... I said nothing of seniority... rather longevity....

For purposes up bidding better equipment as FOs, schedules, QOL.. the mainline pilots are better off than the RJ pilot who comes over...

So you want legacy pilots to fight for higher pay and conditions for regional pilots that may get furloughed? NO.

Do you think legacy pilots have nothing else to worry about and can spend negotiating energy and capital on YOU?

If you or anyone else wants to work for a legacy, then apply, interview, and make the sacrifices that everyone else did. Quit playing the victim card and asking for a free ride. Get your logbook up to date, network, save your money, sell or pay off your BMW and be ready for when legacies begin to hire again.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So you want legacy pilots to fight for higher pay and conditions for regional pilots that may get furloughed? NO.

Incorrect.

Do you think legacy pilots have nothing else to worry about and can spend negotiating energy and capital on YOU?

Again incorrect, on a few levels...

If you or anyone else wants to work for a legacy, then apply, interview, and make the sacrifices that everyone else did. Quit playing the victim card and asking for a free ride. Get your logbook up to date, network, save your money, sell or pay off your BMW and be ready for when legacies begin to hire again.

It will be beneficial for all RJ pilots to do so... but if senior RJ pilots operate the brand till the bitter end and get furloughed due to no choice of their own, AND they apply and pass the interview on their own accord, they get a longevity.. not seniority credit....

This credit is the burden of the company, not taken from ML pilots negotiation capital....

Seems ALPA has some type of obligation to RJ pilots... after all they are ALPA pilots...

 

[sleeves]

10 years ago, mainline guys were greedy and traded short term gains in pay for scope. That was a terrible decision. Now regional pilots are the ones that are screaming, "Me,me,me" Eliminating the whipsaw was smart then and it is smart now. It is going to be costly though, I dought MGT. will want to higher anyone. @ 5 year pay.

 

[HHH]

Incorrect.

but if senior RJ pilots operate the brand till the bitter end and get furloughed due to no choice of their own, AND they apply and pass the interview on their own accord, they get a longevity.. not seniority credit....

This credit is the burden of the company, not taken from ML pilots negotiation capital....

Seems ALPA has some type of obligation to RJ pilots... after all they are ALPA pilots...

No choice of their own? What? I didn't know that people choose to get furloughed. I never gave up 70 seat scope nor did 4000 other CAL pilots. I knew the risks of working for a major included a possible furlough. Same with working for a regional, a flight school....even McDonald's. Again, that's life.

Why do you and other regional pilots deserve more than everyone that went ahead of you?

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

No choice of their own? What? I didn't know that people choose to get furloughed. I never gave up 70 seat scope nor did 4000 other CAL pilots. I knew the risks of working for a major included a possible furlough. Same with working for a regional, a flight school....even McDonald's. Again, that's life.

Why do you and other regional pilots deserve more than everyone that went ahead of you?

It is just so funny that he can't understand that mngmt won't just fork it over. So here is my idea. After the new UAL gets a contract, then let the regional management or regional ALPA ask for the longevity boost. Mainline ALPA shouldn't have to ask, because it is asking for a favor which will cost something in the near future. Let's see how far that get's them! If management says, "of course, no problem!", I will gladly agree to it too. Now why would management hire those entitled to a longevity boost, when they can hire military and non-ALPA regional pilots at first year pay? We all know the answer to that one!!!

Yogi

 

[General Lee]

GL,

We may have leverage, but what I am saying is, mainline pilots are not going to spend one once of leverage (aka negotiating capital) to help regional pilots coming over to get 5th year pay. Please read the thread before you respond. Negotiating capital is leverage. Whomever has more negotiating capital has more leverage.

Yogi

Got it. But, still use the leverage for whatever you do while you have it.


Bye Bye---General Lee