UAL MEC tough stance on Scope---keep it up!

[AWACoff]

Again, how are you harmed.. you just seem mad becasue you feel someone is getting something by you.... you will always have seniority over the RJ CA.......

A ha! There's the fallacy in your argument. I don't feel that someone is getting something by me because your perverted utopian ideals will never happen. The world isn't fair. Deal with it. I risked my family's financial future by resigning my seniority number at my previous carrier and starting over at the bottome (seniority AND pay). All of you regional guys can buck up and do the same thing. Stop asking for handouts because this ain't the Salvation Army.

 

[JoeMerchant]

A ha! There's the fallacy in your argument. I don't feel that someone is getting something by me because your perverted utopian ideals will never happen. The world isn't fair. Deal with it. I risked my family's financial future by resigning my seniority number at my previous carrier and starting over at the bottome (seniority AND pay). All of you regional guys can buck up and do the same thing. Stop asking for handouts because this ain't the Salvation Army.

Rez isn't a regional pilot anymore...He is furloughed mainline...He is trying to patch the leaks in the ALPA liferaft....

You have expressed perfectly why ALPA will fail....You do what you need to do and I will do what I need to do...We aren't in the same liferaft.....

This isn't the Salvation Army...It's every man for themselves.....

 

[jetflier]

Actually, the time to turn the ship around was 15 years ago....Now that you have hit the iceberg you want to turn the ship around....too late...We can rearrange the chairs on the deck if you would like, but it's far too late to turn the ship around....

Well Joe, I think that you are speaking through emotions, and accepting the notion that it's too late is just , giving up.

We, Pilots must change the way that we negotiate our contracts. For example, ALPA contract negotiations have never used a high power, "Wall Street" firm to negotiate a pilot contract. Why not ? 'cause that's the way they have always done it.

I am sure that your airline doesn't ask for employee volunteers, who want to go to a two week negotiating school, and negotiate their next pilot contract. All airlines hire a high power firm to handle their negotiations, that's why pilots keep loosing ground with every trip to the pattern bargaining table.

The status quo no longer works, and with the economy on an upswing, now is the time to change the way we do things.

 

[doh]

The flying comes back when the feeder contract expires. When does the first one happen? Two years, four? There is plenty of time to position for interviews, moves if you don't want to commute and generally get adjusted for the change. You guys are debating as if every regional pilot will be on the street at the same moment. Nobody is factoring in the retirements that start in a couple of years either. Change is coming in life whether you like it or not. Rez, I appreciate your concern, but what you propose is an impracticality. Start planning now people!

 

[Mr Hat]

To be clear....I totally agree with the stance that outsoucing has totally screwed this industry up. What was once a small feed on C402's bringing people to catch big jets has morphed into this mess where there are multiple companies flying around in jets with the same logo on their tail. Divide and conquer at its best. ALL flying within a brand should be done by pilots of that brand. If you buy a ticket on a particular airline, THAT airline should have to fly you (barring cancellations causing rebooking on another airline) to whereever it is you are going. Its about responsibility to your customers who believe they bought a ticket on your airline.......That should have been the outcome of the Buffalo crash.....instead we got a bunch of ragtag new rest rules that'll only serve to take more cash from our pockets when our schedules become less productive.
But again, we wanted to do this years ago. Now Expressjets been spun off, BOUNCED from the MEC (and we were bounced, no doubt).....I should have to reapply to fly the same damn RJ I've been flying for 10 years? Please. I'm fine with a staple job but if you think for one minute I'm going to let my job (the one YOU guys gave me by not making sure these EMB's were on CAL property to begin with) go without a fight, your nuts.

This was your doing, not ours. But my kids not going to starve because I had to reinterview for my E145 job and now I'm a first year FO makin 19 bucks an hour. If you don't think as ALPA pilots you have a responsibilty to ME, also an ALPA pilot....you got another thing coming.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

their own choice. If the regional pilots lose thier job because of scope returns it will not be their choice...



for every pilot...


Not sure where you factor in risk... again the regional pilots lose thier jobs not at their own doing... you seem to not grasp this...



Again... what do you say to the ALPA pilots who are furloughed becuase of scope reversal? So sad too bad? Why? Just cuz?

Rez,

You still have not answered my question! Who will pay for your idea to happen? Management will surely want concessions from us to make this happen! Who do you expect to pay for this, my fellow pilots and I at mainline?

Yogi

 

[relief tube]

Like I said before the days of the teens flying our routes are going to come to an end or it will be the end of UAL.

the "teens" want you all to grow a pair and do the same as well. Why don't you think that? Us teens got into this industry to get to mainline and the only way that happens is if you reverse the wills of your fellow pilots of the past voting on weak scope for a pay increase thus leading to the current ********************ty situation where we're all stuck where we don't want to be.

man up and get it back. we'll all be happy then. I don't want to fly ORD-DFW anymore than you want me to.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez,

You still have not answered my question! Who will pay for your idea to happen? Management will surely want concessions from us to make this happen! Who do you expect to pay for this, my fellow pilots and I at mainline?

Yogi

Management will pay for it... not the ML pilot groups.. the RJs are too expensive. The Outsourcing is not safe... the right govt can be persuasive....

Now answer my question... what of the ALPA RJ pilots who lose thier job due to no fault, choice or action of their own...? As ALPA members we can't just put guys on the street...

Recall.. I am advocating that the RJ pilots must apply and pass the interview on thier own accord...

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

Management will pay for it... not the ML pilot groups.. the RJs are too expensive. The Outsourcing is not safe... the right govt can be persuasive....

Now answer my question... what of the ALPA RJ pilots who lose thier job due to no fault, choice or action of their own...? As ALPA members we can't just put guys on the street...

Recall.. I am advocating that the RJ pilots must apply and pass the interview on thier own accord...

Firstly, management will NEVER pay for that w/o wanting something in return. That is called, " use of negotiating capital". We at ML simply cannot/will not afford this.

Now to answer your question, when the flying comes back to ML, all pilots may apply, and hopefully we will have a fair first year payrate. Your not going to get a lot of empathy from ML pilots. We all endured risk, furlough, low first few year wages. I will certainly not vote for a contract that has low B-scales for first year pilots, but I highly doubt ML pilots will collectively agree to expend any negotiating capital to do so. Also I am not be so fast to say that ML pilots gave away the flying willfully, without threats of bankruptcy and the like. Also, I highly doubt that any junior pilots at ML voted to give any scope away, knowing that they would be furloughed. So , therefore, it was no fault of their own either, and I didn't see any regionals jump up and throw them a bone!!!

I'm done with this, and thanks for the debate!

Yogi

 

[mamba20]

Its all a moot point anyways. ALPA will screw us usual, just watch.