UAL got pensions get slashed by dumb judge

[bluefin]

For all employee's except pilots. The pilots would get half of that because we are taking early retirement at 60, not mandatory retirement as stated in the FEDERAL AVIATION REGULATIONS. That is according to the pbgc. So we are not entitled to get full compensation. Why do you think Alpa was pushing the age 60 rule?.

 

[ThisistheDream]

what benefit or total payments would a 25 year veterean CA at UAL get starting in a year when they retire. 45K a year will be there pbc total payments?????

 

[VampyreGTX]

what benefit or total payments would a 25 year veterean CA at UAL get starting in a year when they retire. 45K a year will be there pbc total payments?????

Nope, since they retire at 60, the PBGC has a penalty that would result in a payout of 28.8K or right around there.

 

[CapnVegetto]

So, it's tomorrow......is the strike on? What's the latest word?

 

[Mugs]

For what it is worth, I have yet to talk to an F/A out on the line that is ready to go on strike. Not that they aren't out there of course. Some are ready to quit, but they want to do so on their own terms at their time of choosing. One 26 year F/A told me yesterday that her UAL health benefits were still much better than what her husband's employer offers, so they want to be able to keep them. I think it is pretty hard to strike knowing that the outcome will probably be losing the job for sure. So push is coming to shove, and we will just have to see what happens. If the majority of F/As, mechanics, baggage handlers and CSRs all have something better lined up I suppose they might get the torch out. If not, then we are just listening to very justifiable venting.

 

[skykid]

Some are ready to quit, but they want to do so on their own terms at their time of choosing.

Absolutely! If you don't like your job, quit. I don't believe the members of these unions lack intelligence or the ability to think logically. I have to believe most understand that the little picture is - no exit financing with pensions, and the big picture is - do you really think any legacy is going to compete with companies that don't have defined pensions in 2005 and beyond? The unions involved are going to lose either way, and they know it.

 

[WhiteCloud]

How much longer can this industry support itself on the backs of their employees?

In the case of UAL .......only until tomorrow.

 

[ThisistheDream]

so if there is a PBGC penalty if you retire at age 60 like we are forced to do how many years do you wait until you get the full amount of benefit 5 yrs? at age 65? Does the benefit go up a little bit each year after 60 until you meet the maximum benefit?

 

[100LL... Again!]

Your lame analogy works if:

• The physician knew about the possibility of gangrene setting in.

• The doctor manipulated the conditions by ommision and commision to allow the infection to flourish.

• Once the infection became obvious, the doctor ignored it and sold the antibiotics so he would have enough money to study merging with another quack, whose office is also full of infected patients.

• As death draws near, the Doctor wants to perform the amputation you speak of.

Corporate officers have some basic duties and responsiblities to the shareholders and employees. You're a conservative 100LL, what happened to personal responsibility? Stick to the political threads, or at least bring your thinking cap.

I think you need to read more carefully. The original poster intimated that the judge should be on the receiving end of a violent act. I responded by suggesting that the current situation is possibly beyond hope, and that the judge was doing the necessary 'amputation' if you will. Let's dissect how you completely failed to understand this:

The physician knew about the possibility of gangrene setting in.

I think you are talking about management here. The abnkruptcy judge cannot make fiduciary decisions regarding UAL's investments and other business decisions.

The doctor manipulated the conditions by ommision and commision to allow the infection to flourish.

Again, this is what management has done, not the bankruptcy judge.

Once the infection became obvious, the doctor ignored it and sold the antibiotics so he would have enough money to study merging with another quack, whose office is also full of infected patients.

Again, management.

As death draws near, the Doctor wants to perform the amputation you speak of.

Here, the poor parent (UAL management) brings their abused and neglected kid (the company and employees) to the doctor (the judge) to request this procedure.

Regardless of which way you want the decision to go, you must first realize that the judge did not bring this situation about. Management did.

After you realize that, you will realize that you did not read my post clearly, but instead drew assumptions after glancing at it.

Alternately, you are perhaps too intellectually challenged to understand the distinction between what management did and what the judge was presented.

Read more carefully next time, and spare yourself thius type of embarassment.

 

[Mugs]

Max PBGC benefit (cap) for retirement in 2004:

$44, 386 / year for age 65 retirement

$28,851 / year for age 60 retirement

$19,974 / year for age 55 retirement

 

[koko nw]

In the case of UAL .......only until tomorrow.

Where still here Einstein.....

 

[skykid]

koko nw,

Go back and do a search of WhiteCloud's predictions on UAL. He has a tremendous yearning for UAL to go away.

 

[labbats]

I wish them all the best, but they'd be better off using their union dues and putting them into their 401K.

 

[klhoard]

Where still here Einstein.....

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Try - "We're". . . . (contraction of the words "We" and "Are"). . . .
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[WhiteCloud]

koko nw,

Go back and do a search of WhiteCloud's predictions on UAL. He has a tremendous yearning for UAL to go away.

OK....I don't like UAL as a company. If you work there you probably don't either. Cancelled stock and big time management suits walking around with gobs of cash (some small portion of it used to be mine) tends to piss me off. Certainly UAL is going away though.....either piece by piece like it is now with only a shell remaining or all at once when the attorneys realize they have taken all they can from the bankruptcy process. What I really yearn for is for UAL to either survive OR fail so they can quit abusing the bankruptcy process and the people they owe money to.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Where still here Einstein.....

For now.

 

[Mugs]

OK....I don't like UAL as a company. If you work there you probably don't either. Cancelled stock and big time management suits walking around with gobs of cash (some small portion of it used to be mine) tends to piss me off. Certainly UAL is going away though.....either piece by piece like it is now with only a shell remaining or all at once when the attorneys realize they have taken all they can from the bankruptcy process. What I really yearn for is for UAL to either survive OR fail so they can quit abusing the bankruptcy process and the people they owe money to.

Sounds like an Independence pilot to me. Soon he too may get to try out the bankruptcy process. After a few more $29 fare sales of course.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Stop, you're killing me!

This one is gonna be exciting...

Let me get this straight, UAL is using bankruptcy law to abrogate employee contracts and work rules, but also wants the judge to force the employees to go to work for whatever pay/benefits the company says it can afford?

Paging Mr. Lincoln....and bring that 13th amendment with you...yes here it is...the Emancipation Proclamation...

I'll be amazed if the workers at UAL can be forced to work for whatever the company wants...

UAL's new service...Coffee, Cotton, Tobacco, and a few lashes for the cabin crew!

-Excuse me Stewardess, what's your name?
-Kunta Kinte!
-It's Stewardess, dang you! Learn your name!
-Kunta....Kinte...

BoeingBoy,

LMAO!! This has to be the best post I've read on here in a long time!!

 

[WhiteCloud]

Sounds like an Independence pilot to me. Soon he too may get to try out the bankruptcy process. After a few more $29 fare sales of course.

Close.......I've already had my fill of the bankruptcy process curtesy of UAL.

 

[OHGOON]

I know this may be naive but why are all the ex UAL management geniouses not held accountable for allowing the underfunding of those pensions. If you went back and garnered all the Golden parachutes it might go a long way to make up the shortfall. (Maybe a young rainmaker could consider a class action lawsuit....... The image of Steven Woolf flipping burgers after it's all over may soothe some souls.)

It always amazes me that the folks who preside over these looming disasters are let off the hook by sticking it to the taxpayers in the end. (TWA is gone but Icchan is off raping the next business, and so on and so on......) The enablers of the status quo always excuse this by saying it was and is perfectly "legal" but just because it may be so does not make it right or ethical.

 

[WhiteCloud]

The enablers of the status quo always excuse this by saying it was and is perfectly "legal" but just because it may be so does not make it right or ethical.

That's absolutely correct. Try re-establishing some business credibility after reneging on a contract sometime. I'd hate to attempt running a business with a bunch of employees that just had their retirement plans taken. They'll get back somehow.....some way.