UAL Economic Recovery Plan

[publisher]

some further points

Glad to see we got everything stirred a bit.

First, I do not think that concessions alone will accomplish anything towards the rebuilding of United Airlines. If you read my earlier posts, you would know that I was not defending past management although I thought it too wide to lump all their decisions as bad. Some only looked bad in light of events they could not anticipate.

Secondly, I have over 35 years in the management of companies, both airlines and other industries. I think I have a base of experience and expertise in the field, certainly enough to discuss it.

Thirdly, future money gained in negotiations is only yours after it is earned and there is a company there to earn it from. The last pilot contract was met almost universally by the investment and business community as unaffordable by United. It was also pointed out by others that the labor actions taken by the pilot corp prior to the contract completion was detrimental to keeping their business traffic.

To me it was extremely unfortunate that time was wasted trying to come to terms with the other labor groups for new wage levels only so that could be out of the way for concession talks. Here is your raise, now give it back. When this company needed to be together, it has no leader and spends its time coping with things like this.

And Furloughed, Frank Lorenzo did not drive Eastern into the ground, you can look to Borman for that one. Continental had to get in such bad shape that Gordon could come in and say this is how it is going to be or we will shut the doors. Sort of th eSteve Wolf approach with a lot more charm and tact.

My original point is that every day that goes by with this dragging is two days more to recover. If concessions discussions become renegotiation of entire contracts, UAL will continue to lose marketshare and time. It cannot afford either one.

 

[UALU30]

Why don't you watch your house and we'll watch ours?

Last time around we gave the company $3 billion dollars to get rid of Wolf. Where did it go? For four consecutive years UAL made $1 billion dollars a year in NET profit.

"The last pilot contract was met almost universally by the investment and business community as unaffordable by United."

But not Delta? Delta has United + 1%. Delta pilots get paid more than United pilots. The outrage!

United got Contract 2000 b/c of the Delta Dot. Do you see a pattern here? Do you see the direction in which management wants to take that pattern?

Perhaps in the last 35 years of la de da you have come across this principle of capitalism: The investment and business community are not the friend of Labor. Another newsflash: ANY new labor contract that includes a raise, no matter how insignificant (i.e.-pace of inflation) is considered detrimental to a business plan by that same community.

That "community", however, finds no problems in constantly abrogating those contracts at every opportunity, while handsomely awarding consummate failure within their own ranks by honoring such beautiful golden parachutes as Mr. Goodwin's. It gives me an enormous sense of gratitude toward management that the resources of UAL will be directed toward insuring that Mr. Goodwin is always provided with a secretary, office space, car, and country club membership.

Upper management doesn't give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** about the employees or the company. They could care less whether UAL even exists in 2030. They are vampires that will feed off the cash cow and leave, because they can.

The pilots will, once again, save this company from it's ineptitude. It'll cost even more this time around. But it will be in the form of absolute assets for our latest LOAN of OUR money, and a final house cleaning of this miserable upper management.

 

[UALU30]

"Maybe the shareholders money"

Who do you think owns a quarter of United? The Pilots. OUR shareholder money.

Who do you think owns United? The Employees.

Who do you think holds a majority of seats on the Board, however?

"Geez, I did not know it was your money."

You are correct. You know absolutely nothing about this, however you feel free to pontificate like any other arrogant two year old.

I'm going to get off this board before I have a heart attack and lose my medical.

 

[EAP]

I'm going to have to be a bit different here, being a UALie and all, but I think the last thing that will happen here is for the pilots to save the airline on our own. I think we desperately need leadership, and we desperately need direction. And, it HAS to come from the top.

As much as Publisher says things I don't necissarily agree with or want to hear, a few of his comments are right. It's time to get back to not who's right, but what's right. Not here on the forum, but in our own company.

We have started in that track with Creighton, and now it needs to continue. I came to UAL from another major, and I'm sorry to say I've been a bit suprised by the costly games played with everyone's money. After we learn how not to get in this position again - ever- that all has to be put behind us and a new chapter started, or we will languish in our new mediocrity. With fresh leadership, innovation and the same dedication from employees that has been shown as of late, I think our best years are yet to come.

 

[wafu39]

Publisher.

I think that every pilot at UAL is willing to do their part to turn the company around.

WE JUST DO NOT TRUST OUR MANAGEMENT TO DO THEIR PART!

 

[publisher]

CHOICE IS

And the alternative to trusting management is.

The fact that UAL signed the contract that they did was the baseline contract for the industry. Hence Delta and if you will recall American was offered either Delta or United plus one and so is that a part of U's I believe as well.

Yes you pilots are the shareholders as are many other of the fine United Employees that are not on this message board.

I do not think that you have really read what I have said in these posts. Your angry reaction says that you did not. Not once have I said anything in support of management.

I posted a response to the origina post which I though reflected an attitude that would make it extremely difficult to come to agreements that would let the company move forward. If the same thing is presented by the other major unions, it will be awhile before this company is back on its feet. That is if they cvan find someone to run it.

 

[JerkyHerky]

As a keen, yet disinterested, follower of the passenger sector of the airline industry it seemed pretty clear to many of the industry analysts (see the salient posts on planebusiness.com) that even during the heyday of the industry in the late 90's United was experiencing turmoil and strategic "fogginess" within it's Sr. Management. It had lost its focus and vision and its competitors were making significant gains at the expense of United.

While the wage increases that labor made in recent contract negotiations certainly didn't help the economic condition of the company, the real problems with United are much more fundamental and systemic. Until these problems are addressed I don't think any concessions the pilots or other groups make will solve the real shortcomings.

 

[AlbieF15]

Management has proven to be inept and short sighted. Your stock has been punished by Avolar and the failed US Air buyout. Pilots alienated the core pax with the slowdown. The pilot/Mgt battles have eclipsed the real issue...the loss of the full price walk up fare.

I offer no suggestions....only a question. Are you going to ride out the storm or is it time to put in the app to SWA and JetBlue? Long before 9/11, the NASDAQ bubble burst cost you many business fares. So now what? If you are onboard, what do you do to right this ship?

Wishing you the best,

Albie

 

[Slug]

Bail

Unfortunately I saw it coming back in July and decided enough was enough. That is why I am waiting on my SWA classdate and not my UAL recall.

Slug

 

[banned username 1]

What to do?.......

Hey Guys,

Great string which reminds me of the olden days of the board. Great give and take with little heat and much light.

Let's push back from this debate and turn to the TV and look at the other news item that has been there my entire adult life: Isreal and the Palestinians. I'm not going to get into that one, but I will use it to demonstrate the complexity of a situation and the pig-headedness of both sides that continue to confound possible solutions.

As I have said all along, there is enough blame on either side to go around at UAL. You have to wonder at what point does the situation have to get so dismal as to grab the attention of every player in order to make meaningful changes to assure the viability and indeed future success of the company? When does the IAM and AFA realize that they need to be part of a solution? When does Management realize that a few of the very TOP guys need to go as well as many in the middle ranks? It's been said that "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again the same way and expecting different results" What are "WE" collectively doing? Something that's puzzled me for months is how you can go on losing money at this rate and not be more animated at stemming the losses- and I'm not just talking about management. As long as those checks keep coming on the 1st and 16th and they don't bounce, does everybody have a sense of some urgency?

We're going to need to do something, for sure. Just blaming it on the economy isn't going to solve the immediate problem. That's like hoping the patient will hang on until the infection passes rather than take a few antibiotics. I do hope they remember that after a point, medicine doesn't work and you're left with only prayers.

In our case, some antibiotics are in order as well as a realization that we need to start an exercise program to prevent a re-occurance and start eating better, too. One thing didn't get UAL into this fix and one group can't solve the problems either-nor should they. It'll be interesting to watch how far the patient can slip before the caregivers (that's all of us, folks) break out the medicine.

Be well,

UAL78