UAL Economic Recovery Plan

[UALU30]

Hartsfield? Are we talking about O'Hare? Or do you mean Midway?

No matter, you bring up, albeit unintentionally, a great point. Delta has UAL+1%. Pattern bargaining works both directions. UAL is demanding concessions and the entire industry is watching b/c American will get whatever UAL gets, and DAL will follow the same path. UAL management is like a bunch of three year old children with lobotomies. It would be insane given their track record to ever give them money, you might as well flush it straight down the toilet.

What U30-2 allows is a solid business plan which will grow the airline. In return, the employee groups make a directed investment that insures that this management doesn't continue on it's merry way in the creation of it's Death Star Express Alliance "Virtual Airline" while protecting the pattern bargaining process and the work rules hard-won over the past seventy years.

Hopefully the new CEO will come with that mandate to fully clean the Do-dahs and Studdert's house and restore United to what it should be.

 

[FlyingSig]

b/c American will get whatever UAL gets, and DAL will follow the same path. /B]

DAL management is going to have to wait until sec 6 openers in 2005 to "get theirs". I would hope any concessions UAL pilots negotiate would include a snabback or experation date.

 

[Ualexpress]

<<I would hope any concessions UAL pilots negotiate would include a snabback or experation date.>>

From what I have seen on this board and from what I have heard from my dad and brother (both UAL pilots) most pilots won't even consider concessions until:

1. All the executives below Creighton are sumarily shown the door, and

2. All shareholders in the company (all employee, management, and creditors) participate in a Recovery Plan.

2. There is a snapback date to the original pay and work rules when economic conditions improve.

If the above does not happen, then forget it.

 

[publisher]

shareholders

With that attitude, we will see the demise of UAL. This justs reflects that some don't get it.

Restore United to what it used to be, I don't think so.

Too many people wanting to make a point, not enough realizing they are part of the problem not the soulution.

 

[HvyjetFO]

<<With that attitude, we will see the demise of UAL. This justs reflects that some don't get it.

Restore United to what it used to be, I don't think so.

Too many people wanting to make a point, not enough realizing they are part of the problem not the soulution.>>

Publisher,

While everyone is entitled to their own oppinion, your quote from above reflects your lack of knowledge on the subject matter, and the industry. You have lost all credibility that I gave you the doubt of having in the first place.

I could go into detail as to why I don't particularly favor concessions, but I am not inclined to do so with you as it is as useless as explaining nuclear physics to a third grader.

My oppinion is that you are the one that doesn't get it, so stop telling me what I should or should not do with my money.

Hvy

 

[publisher]

Geez

Geez, I did not know it was your money. Maybe the shareholders money, maybe the passengers money, but your money, I don't think so.

I also want to make it clear that I am not talking pilots only, I think everyone there is going to have to realize that between them and USAirways, you are not the carriers that you used to be and the opportunity of you going forward with the contracts you have will harm the company and lead to lost marketshare. The cost of your infrastructure will leave United weakened and suseptible to attack by the stronger niche players like Southwest.

The cost of labor to UAL was being questioned long before September 11th on a number of fronts. There will be new management and there will be concessions.

 

[Ualexpress]

<<Too many people wanting to make a point, not enough realizing they are part of the problem not the soulution.>>

Exactly publisher, that has been the attitude of the management of UAL. Just like when the CFO who upon the United pilots recieving their new contract said "Congratulations on your new contract boys, good luck in keeping it. WTF over! Nice employee relation building. They just don't get it. This management needs to go. What part of that do you not understand. You do not have the experience within this industry to know what the heck you are speaking of. I think you need to spend a few years at an airline being bent over time and time again. Until then I hold no respect for anything you have to say. Your opinions obviuosly slant way twords the management side of things and refuse to see things the way employees do. The employees of United have tried to see things the way management does (i.e. taking huge pay cuts for ESOP) and have watched while that money was flushed down the toilet. Why would they want to do that again given their track record.

One more piece of advice. Read Flying the Line Volume I and II as well as Rapid Descent and Hard Landings. Gauranteed eye opener my friend.

 

[furloughed]

publisher,

with all due respect, you seem to think concessions are the end all be all that will save United. Continental wallowed in mediocracy for over a decade with deep employee concessions. Nothing changed for Continental Until someone came in that actually knew how to run an airline. Eastern went under even though the employees took concessions. Same with Pan AM. Why? Eastern was driven into the ground by Frank Lorenzo and Pan Am management failed to adjust to a deregulated world.

Like the previous poster said, read Flying the Line I and II. Interesting read and good history lesson for those not familiar with union/management relations in the airline industry.

 

[HvyjetFO]

Re: Geez

Geez, I did not know it was your money. Maybe the shareholders money, maybe the passengers money, but your money, I don't think so.

Do you have any idea what you are talking about whatsoever? If management comes to my pilot group and asks for X amount of a paycut, is this not my money and that of my fellow pilots to give back? Is it not MY contractually negotiated wages that are being threatened? How is this shareholder and passenger money?


Labor costs are not the problem. A revenue shortfall is the problem. Two entirely different entities, but it's easier to blame how much pilots make rather than to generate revenue in a short timeframe.

Hvy

 

[furloughed]

<<I think everyone there is going to have to realize that between them and USAirways, you are not the carriers that you used to be>>

I think its safe to say no airline is the carrier it used to be after Sept 11th with the exception of SWA.

Now for some good news.


United Airlines Moves Up Dramatically in DOT Performance Rankings

- Carrier 3rd in On-Time Arrivals and Baggage Service -

CHICAGO, May 6 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- United Airlines (NYSE: UAL - news) soared over much of the competition and finished in third place in three key operational categories -- on-time arrivals, fewest cancellations and baggage service -- ranked by the U.S. Department of Transportation. The Government's statistics for March were announced earlier today.

Compared to 2001, United moved up from sixth place to third in on-time arrivals and from ninth place to third in terms of percentage of flights completed. The company's mishandled bag rate per 1,000 customers was also near the top of the industry, bumping United up from eighth place last year to third.