UAL Capt in DEN- December 2010

[Hawker800]

Whoa. If a CSR has this authority over a Captain at United, then I will have to purchase a competitors tickets from now on. Have alot of miles on United commuting back and forth to my corporate job through Denver. Especially since United will not back their Captain. I can remember the day that that Captain would have grabbed that CSR by the collar and the seat of his britches and sent him through the door to fetch that bag.

 

[Dizel8]

Dizel:

No irony at all.

Once you get "physical" with anyone at work, all bets are off. ALPA or otherwise.

A350

Maybe I missed it, how did you come to the conclusion that the Captain got physical?

 

[densoo]

Maybe I missed it, how did you come to the conclusion that the Captain got physical?

Like it or not, there was contact. With no witnesses, the CSR can spin the story.

The Captain then attempted to go around him, when he forcibly tried to stop the Captain’s progress again making physical contact. The Captain continued to move to gain access through the door. When it became apparent that the Captain was going to gain access, Mr. ****** abruptly stopped pushing, flopped back and stated, “That’s assault.”

 

[jonjuan]

I can remember the day that that Captain would have grabbed that CSR by the collar and the seat of his britches and sent him through the door to fetch that bag.

You must mean around the time of the Tenerife accident.

 

[Dizel8]

Like it or not, there was contact. With no witnesses, the CSR can spin the story.

Certainly he can, but that doesn't mean it happened. Any one can accuse you of anything, but that doesn't make it true.

Just based on what I have read here, this CSR's attitude is known by others.

 

[charlie2]

If there are no witnesses how do you think the trial will go?

 

[glasspilot1]

Just based on what I have read here, this CSR's attitude is known by others.

Dizel, I think you might have something there. If this does go to trial the CA attorneys will probably be able to find many people that will say this agents a jerk (so to speak).

 

[UAL-GSO]

Like it or not, there was contact. With no witnesses, the CSR can spin the story.

Every state is different - most require an element of intent to be proven for a conviction. I.E. - did the Captain intend to physically harm the CSR or was he simply trying to get around him. It sounds like the CSR was the primary physical aggressor in this situation, but that will be up to the court to decide.

If he so chooses, that Captain could spend a few minutes with a Magistrate and probably get a warrant for the same charge against the CSR. The whole situation is sad, but unfortunately b.s. crap like this clogs up the courts every day.

 

[densoo]

Certainly he can, but that doesn't mean it happened. Any one can accuse you of anything, but that doesn't make it true. Just based on what I have read here, this CSR's attitude is known by others.

It's all spin from this point on. The CSR called the cops, accusing the CA of assualt. The first question the cops will ask is did you have physical contact with him. I just brushed up against him, I was trying to get around him, whatever, if the answer is yes then the CA is on the defensive from that point on.

Next is like an offensive foul in basketball. Who had position. From the narrative, the CSR was standing in front of the door. The CA tried to push through him. He made the first contact and he initiated the contact. Unless he're running from a greater hazard like a burning plane, that doesn't look good for the CA.

Finally, the sympathies. The wildly wealthy spoiled CA (as is the stereotype and how he will be portrayed) or the harried low paid CSR?

It is outrageous we get treated this way, from gutting our pay and beneftis, to going through security, and then having to deal with our own fellow employees who want to get their ego trip of the day by disrespecting jumpseaters, deadheaders, nonrevs, and even working crewmembers who have to beg to be let down the jetway.

Nevertheless, I would not want to be in this guy's shoes.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

From another forum!!!!

The problem is that ALPA WOULD get behind this if it had occurred exactly as the Altar Boy version printed here. From some reliable sources I spoke to today the truth is somewhere in between. The key is to follow the arrest. The pilot "was" a member of an exclusive club in N.M. The cops were actually on his side until he showed his inability to keep his cool and lost it on the jetway. There is supposedly video footage of the entire event and that is being used to validate the CSR's claims. What we have in this thread is an email/council letter of damage control by the LEC and the Capt trying to make him not look like a tool in front of his peers. In the age of the internet it is posted on a forum and gains traction as the gospel. When in fact the Captain's version as posted in the OP are far from the truth and what the video evidence shows.

This comes from a reliable source within the union that says this could wind up being a black eye for ALPA. The CSR and company have too much evidence against him to let him off free. They said termination is still on the table.

The information the ALPA guy had was that the OMC was assigned a seat in the cabin. It had boarding zone 4. The agents were told the overhead bins were full and they were tagging ALL bags for passengers sitting in zones 3-4. The JetBlue pilot handed the agent his boarding pass and the agent tagged his bag per UA procedures. The Capt used some threatening body language toward the agent, didn't know the door code and acted up pretty significantly on the jetway.

 

[St. Nic]

This tool deserves to go down. Their are two sides to every story and it doesn't suprise me this guy lost his cool. Typical

 

[CesnaCaptn]

This tool deserves to go down. Their are two sides to every story and it doesn't suprise me this guy lost his cool. Typical

Typical of what?

 

[Wesb737fo]

wow... not making any judgements in this case but, time after time I have heard guys at my airline say they have always had witnesses handy when confronting CSR's, FA's or whoever during these type of situations. It's just to easy for people to lie. To get one of us high and mighty pilots in trouble must give some of these people great satisfaction.

Maybe the Captain was fed up with the general erosion of his authority and made a jackwagon out of himself. Too bad this may cost him his job, I don't think it should but these are the times we live in. A350 said it right, sit down, make some phone calls. For me, it would have ended when the guy prevented my access to the ramp. I would then get a witness (FO perhaps) to watch the guy prevent my access to the ramp.

On a side note, on a recent flight while chatting with the CA during boarding, a FA came up and began to tell us about how her previous front end crew were big jerks. She went on to say she overheard them talking about our President with unflattering terms, claimed they were racists for calling him the N word and then tried to record their conversation using her cell phone. Wow... I didn't make a judgement about the previous crew because I wasn't there, but, the fact that she would have tried to eavesdrop and record something in an effort to punish the front end for their opinions was a little bit of a stunner.

 

[Wesb737fo]

This tool deserves to go down. Their are two sides to every story and it doesn't suprise me this guy lost his cool. Typical

let me guess .... you are dating the customer service rep?

 

[COpilot]

Like it or not, there was contact. With no witnesses, the CSR can spin the story.

I've been using the iphone for some time now.

Whenever there appears to be a possibility of confrontation or dispute; I stop
I say "I'm now turning on my recorder (video or sound) for both our protection."

I carry on the conversation as I should, and the reaction is usually one of give up on their part.

 

[densoo]

I've been using the iphone for some time now.

Whenever there appears to be a possibility of confrontation or dispute; I stop
I say "I'm now turning on my recorder (video or sound) for both our protection."

I carry on the conversation as I should, and the reaction is usually one of give up on their part.

It is amazing people's response to being recorded. I have road ragers tailgate me on a road near where I live, weaving back and forth and generally being dangerous and obnoxious. Can't help it if I only go 9 miles over the speed limit. On two occasions I've pulled out my flip phone, opened it, and pointed it at them.

One guy started to pass me and I followed him with the phone as he came up along side. As soon as he saw the phone he put on his brakes, put himself in my blind spot, and stayed there. Slowed down, he slowed down. Sped up, he sped up. Until we parted ways at the next intersection. They immediately realize that their tailgate and wreckless driving, make/model of car, license plate, and face are about to go on youtube, then an email to the local PD with the youtube link. They get it.

And yes, I am a piece of work.
And no, the flip phone doesn't even have a camera.

 

[C-150ETOPS]

clr4theapch,

Just curious. Do you have any experience flying a passenger jet in the US that weighs >100k lbs?

Thanks

 

[C-150ETOPS]

I've been using the iphone for some time now.

Whenever there appears to be a possibility of confrontation or dispute; I stop
I say "I'm now turning on my recorder (video or sound) for both our protection."

I carry on the conversation as I should, and the reaction is usually one of give up on their part.

I'd highly suggest you know verbatim the taping laws of the state you are in before you do the above. A savvy opponet may have you legally keel hauled on stronger grounds than the UAL guy is looking at (not much in his case IMHO).

edit: I found it. http://www.rcfp.org/taping/states.html it's clear as mud in cases, good luck and I give you my jailhouse/cockpit lawyer permission

I think the website was "can I tape" and covered most states, but it's been a long time since I looked.

Life today surely isn't Pappy Boyington running things in the Pacific. A quick fist would solve many problems if done right.

 

[IBNAV8R]

clr4theapch,

Just curious. Do you have any experience flying a passenger jet in the US that weighs >100k lbs?

Thanks

And this is relevant to the topic, how?

 

[C-150ETOPS]

And this is relevant to the topic, how?

He referred to the Captain as a "tool".

He also discounted the effects of stress in performance as a result of a confrontation before a flight. That is a potential huge safety problem.

While I have never been in a situation at that level before a flight, I have seen other power trips by various departments throwing their weight around and pressuring a the pilots to conform to their BS without considering the pilots side of an issue. The intent of a poster is sometimes tough to decipher, I am respectfully asking him if he has ever been in the other seat like this Captain was. The >100K isn't scientific. I know guys who flew nothing bigger than a C172 who excercised command authority more than B777 Captains I've flown with.

He made a post with a reasoning that I am questioning respectfully.