UAL and Mesa Reach Agreement

[ACABlueridge]

Sherlock

No sh$t sherlock! It's called a BUSINESS! IT'S ALL ABOUT MAKING MONEY!

Have you ever heard of sarcasm Beanhead?

 

[climbhappy]

united and their restructuring

the latest issue of Forbes magazine, you know the one for guys with portfolios in the six to seven figure bracket, (one I'm not in,) ....
has a article called:

DEATHWATCH: THE STORY OF United and their bankruptsy..

It appears the wall streeters don't have much faith in this major.

meanwhile, the cfo for US air testifies he advanced the pensions of seagal,gangwal and some other shmuck about 35 million before their filing.

it sounds as if it may take the loss of alot of aviation history to Stabilize this mess. IT JUST SUCKS! AND IT SUCKS MORE AND MORE..................................

 

[got_jumpseat?]

I dont get it........seems like UAL was in such a hurry to have an all jet fleet. They want all of the J41's replaced with RJ's at ACA, and I would imagine they pushed Air Wisconsin to get rid of the Do328's (not sure about that, just a guess). So, why Dash-8's with Mesa? Anyone care to share some good speculation?

Meanwhile, while they make definite plans with Mesa they leave the rest of the UAX carriers hanging as to what they will do with them.

Oh well, back to flipping my switches and eating banana sandwiches.

Hanging? C' mon. Ever see "Faces of Death"? remember the monkey with a fistfull of rice in the tree hole? The pygmy hunter just walks up to him and pops him on the head with his club and fresh monkey meat. All the monkey had to do was let go of the rice he could have run away with his life. The monkey is so greedy he cant let go of the rice even though he sees the hunter walking right up to him.

Speculation? Ill tell you exactly why. Have you ever seen the dog and pony show at the DEN United Express gates in Summertime? It seems like all the Doorknobs and Brazilias are weight restricted down to 15 or 16 people sometimes. May as well run a Beech on the flight but Lakes cant figure out how to get more than 12 people on a beech in the summer. It gets to be such a monkey poo fling fest i'd rather walk back to Farmington.

Now the DHC8200 is a mountain airplane. Doing our part to save United now. It was our flying to begin with wasn't it so dont even go there. Yeah United fired us for what, Great Mistakes? They got broomed too.

Mesa does run around like two monkeys fuc&ing a football sometimes maybe one day they will figure it out. Mesa is still young, I know airlines 75 years old that still have growing pains.

The moral of the story is don't be a fuc&ing monkey.

 

[RJPilott]

Hanging? C' mon. Ever see "Faces of Death"? remember the monkey with a fistfull of rice in the tree hole? The pygmy hunter just walks up to him and pops him on the head with his club and fresh monkey meat. All the monkey had to do was let go of the rice he could have run away with his life. The monkey is so greedy he cant let go of the rice even though he sees the hunter walking right up to him.

Are you trying to equate the UAL-Mesa agreement and the impact it has on UEX carriers to a Faces of Death video? Are you saying those "hanging" are "monkeys with a fist full of rice"? Is our "rice" our jobs? Is Mesa the Pygmy hunter? Are you saying we should give up our "rice" to save our UEX lives from the Pygmy hunter known as Mesa?

 

[AWACoff]

Got Jumpseat, I am assuming you have never flown a Doinker (D328). If you had, you wouldn't lump it in the same category as the E120. It's not even a comparison. The worst restriction I ever had on the Doinker (temperature related...not fuel) was 27 people. It has to get VERY hot out for a 328 to get restricted to 15 people. At that point all the RJs are restricted too. The Dash does a bit better than the 328 as far as weight restrictions go in the summer time. Unfortunately Piper Tomahawks cruise faster than it. On a side note, have you seen the dog and pony show at the Mesa gates when flights are cancelled "all the time". Maybe Frontier will "broom" you guys.

 

[WSurf]

Get ready boys (UAX), we at PDT have watched Mesa screw up flights out of CLT. Cx flights here and they but they brag about a 90% completion factor. Thats because they will run a flight 3 hrs late with no pax on board, just to complete it and get paid by US Airways. PDT Gate agents refer to Mesa as (Mx Every Single A/C). Those ERJ's are new wait till they get some years on them. There service is terrible, they Pilot Contract is bad, and the new TA they will sign will bring the industry back 10 years.
Eg. No flight numbers, but in CLT last week we had freezing rain. Many a/c were told to hold there push because the De Ice Pad was backed up. Remember there pilots get paid only Segment pay. After they were told to hold there push three times, they all the sudden said they were neg. on the Deice and allowed to taxi and take off. I know its a PIC Call, but when you are getting only Segment pay I think it is a factor in the process. Anyway to Mesa 2 flights did that! At the deice pad about 10 Dashs and 1 ERJ, and the plane in front of us still had Ice on its tail that we could see. I am sure I am gonna get some Neg. feed back, but all I am saying is that if you are paid Block or better you will have a much easier time on working out these situtions they sitting in the A/C going. (Crap we arent getting Paid right now)

 

[got_jumpseat?]

Are you trying to equate the UAL-Mesa agreement and the impact it has on UEX carriers to a Faces of Death video? Are you saying those "hanging" are "monkeys with a fist full of rice"? Is our "rice" our jobs? Is Mesa the Pygmy hunter? Are you saying we should give up our "rice" to save our UEX lives from the Pygmy hunter known as Mesa?

No what I am saying is the BK court is not going to let you keep those FAT UAL contracts no matter what, if you let go of them Mesa the pygmy hunter would have to look elsewhere for a meal. Thats all.

Being the lowest possible bidder is nothing to be proud of, but in this day and age if thats what its going to take to keep working, it is better than selling cars or flipping burgers.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

Yes DHC8's are the only airliners capable of having a birdstrike from behind. The doorknobs if anything are fast little suckers. I know the Brazilias are the real troublemakers in summer.

Got Jumpseat, I am assuming you have never flown a Doinker (D328). If you had, you wouldn't lump it in the same category as the E120. It's not even a comparison. The worst restriction I ever had on the Doinker (temperature related...not fuel) was 27 people. It has to get VERY hot out for a 328 to get restricted to 15 people. At that point all the RJs are restricted too. The Dash does a bit better than the 328 as far as weight restrictions go in the summer time. Unfortunately Piper Tomahawks cruise faster than it. On a side note, have you seen the dog and pony show at the Mesa gates when flights are cancelled "all the time". Maybe Frontier will "broom" you guys.

 

[CRJ Driver]

Hanging? C' mon. Ever see "Faces of Death"? remember the monkey with a fistfull of rice in the tree hole? The pygmy hunter just walks up to him and pops him on the head with his club and fresh monkey meat. All the monkey had to do was let go of the rice he could have run away with his life. The monkey is so greedy he cant let go of the rice even though he sees the hunter walking right up to him.

Speculation? Ill tell you exactly why. Have you ever seen the dog and pony show at the DEN United Express gates in Summertime? It seems like all the Doorknobs and Brazilias are weight restricted down to 15 or 16 people sometimes. May as well run a Beech on the flight but Lakes cant figure out how to get more than 12 people on a beech in the summer. It gets to be such a monkey poo fling fest i'd rather walk back to Farmington.

Now the DHC8200 is a mountain airplane. Doing our part to save United now. It was our flying to begin with wasn't it so dont even go there. Yeah United fired us for what, Great Mistakes? They got broomed too.

Mesa does run around like two monkeys fuc&ing a football sometimes maybe one day they will figure it out. Mesa is still young, I know airlines 75 years old that still have growing pains.

The moral of the story is don't be a fuc&ing monkey.

Its very apperent, you dont know anything about the DO328, in the summer it was weight restricted for driftdown not climb limited the highest airport was DRO. On the hotest day in the summer out of DRO we could fill every seat and take 30 bags, lets see the E120 do that!! As far as Mesa saving UAL what a joke.
I guess you were not around in 98' when mesa got KICKED out of DEN because of VERY BAD SERVICE, and Air Wisconsin took over.


Put the crack pipe down dude!

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Got_Jumpseat?

You said, "no what I'm saying is the BK court is not going to let you keep those FAT UAL contracts, no matter what, if you let go of them Mesa the pygmy hunter would have to look elsewhere for a meal. Thats all. Being the lowest possible bidder is nothing to be proud of, but in this day and age if that's what going to take to keep working, it is better than selling cars or flipping burgers."
___________________________________________________

Perhaps if the "pygmy hunter" was hunting in season and not poaching, we wouldn't be having this discussion. In other words, the only reason that Mesa Air Group is able to underbid everybody else is because you, as a pilot group, have agreed to work for less than industry standard. I understand the difficult position that you found yourselves in during the most recent negotiations given the whole CCAir/Freedom fiasco. I also feel that you brought a lot of that mess on through your inaction during previous negotiations. As a result, you have unknowingly lowered the bar for the rest of the regional pilots and created a whipsaw effect that will no doubt ripple through the rest of the industry, as evidenced by the current UAL/UEX negotiations.

The first part of my post might seem a bit harsh. I don't hold a personal grudge against you or any other Mesa pilots, or any pilot group for that matter. I know that on a daily basis we all do the same job, but let's take some pride in what we do. Assuming that this TA passes, you guys will have a few years to get ready for the next contract. PPPLLEEAASSEE do it right next time. Show Jonny O. and the rest of the sleazeballs that you are not the equivalent of a prostitute willing to accept anything in order to keep flying. The regional industry is where a lot of our futures be, given the changing nature of the airline industry. Let's make sure we're ALL doing our part to make it a viable option for the long term. Otherwise, we all might just as well work full time at Mickey D's and fly our RJ's for free because "they're cool".

 

[climbhappy]

kingairkiddo....bipolar maybe?

first , you blame the mesa guys for accepting below standard wages and put the entire burden of the current industry on their shoulders....

what a lame, uniformed, biased, "let's get on the bash Mesa train" express.. statement!

Oh, and then you recant your diatribe, only to say," hey I want to be your friend.... and next time show Johnny O who's boss... WOW!

Finally, you say we'll all end up flying for free and working at Mickey D's... your use of metaphors sucks.....


REALITY CHECK! Comair strike was the landmark case of pilot vs mgt......

REALITY CHECK! 2 majors in bk, both could fail ( US air due to pension troubles, United due to lack of labor concessions.. three more majors likely to seek ch 11 protection....( DAL,AA,CAL) they all have bk lawyers on payroll

Isn't it United , Mr. Kingairkiddo, and not Mesa who is to blame for selecting the lower cost vendor..... isn't it there fault even though a bankruptsy judge sits with a gavel as well as the creditors who are actually in control of the company right now..
It's called debtor in possession , but creditors have to bless everything...

THE REALITY IS SIR, these lawyers are determining the future events and not the pilot group at Mesa.... get it right next time

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Bipolar. Now that's funny.

Look, maybe it was late and maybe I was just a bit cranky. The bottom line, sir, is that I'm potentially facing the loss of my job and being out on the street with thousands of other pilots because a.)there's a chance that UAL will liquidate, leaving UAL and UEX pilots out to dry b.)as though that's not enough, we're faced with bids from "undisclosed carriers" for UEX service which is being used to whipsaw us around. Yes, I understand that UAL makes the decision regarding UEX service. The problem is that your bid is so outrageously low that it makes it nearly impossible to compete without HUGE concessions, and it's not like we were talking about six figures to begin with. UAL would not have this option if your pilot group had been minding the store during previous negotiations (and no the burden for the entire industry is not on your shoulders--you just happen to be the biggest threat to my continued financial and personal well being for the short term, so from that vantage I'll admit that it is "pick on Mesa day").

I realize that UAL is in a perilous position right now, but a lowball bid on regional service is simply a cost cutting initiative that allows UAL management to say "gee we saved some money" instead of addressing the problems facing the company and finding real solutions to those problems. I think we as UEX carriers do have a responsibility to do what we can to help, but I don't think we should have to work for Wal-Mart wages just to be competitive either. If this is not the case at Mesa, then please enlighten me. Please reference the portions of your contract that address hourly wage, cancellation pay for wx and mx, days off, etc. If Mesa is able to provide the lowest bid based on other factors, then please share those, too.

No, I don't really care if you're a friend or not. I was simply stating that we all do the same job. I hold no resentment toward you and would never treat a Mesa pilot badly in the terminal or on the jumpseat or whatever. Period.

Now, as for the bad use of metaphors thing. You may be right about that. Fortunately for me, I was not an English major in college and do not make my living looking for grammatical errors in text. Therefore, it falls under the category of "I don't really care".

Later.

 

[RJPilott]

Being the lowest possible bidder is nothing to be proud of, but in this day and age if thats what its going to take to keep working, it is better than selling cars or flipping burgers.

I just looked at your TA summary and payscales over on the other thread. 8 days off? 1.15 per diem? Our 2nd year J41 FO's make more than your 7th yr Jet FO's above 76 seats! "Controllable CX" pay? You gotta be kidding. I would MUCH rather sell cars, fly some light twins for my "fix", live in a nice place and be home everynight than bust my a$$, live in a 2 bedroom apt with 3 to a room eating Ramen noodles for 4 years with a contract like that. I certainly hope you guys vote no. I sold cars in the early-mid 90's, i will gladly do it again if some idiot thinks I'll fly for free. I'd much rather rent out a nice light twin (even a nice 152) every once in a while on my terms with money in my pocket and a decent dinner everynight at home. Its better than being a whore. If you feel whoring yourself out just to fly is better than looking for respectable work elsewhere while fullfilling your love of flight, then perhaps you can work for me one day....

 

[j41driver]

Re: Got_Jumpseat?

Assuming that this TA passes, you guys will have a few years to get ready for the next contract. PPPLLEEAASSEE do it right next time.

Hey, how about this....

Vote NO on the TA and do it right THIS time.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

That would be better...

I was working under the assumption that the TA would pass, as reported by some on this board. If got_jumpseat and climbhappy represent the mindset of the majority of Mesa pilots, then I think it will pass.

Doing it right this time WOULD be the better solution.

Of course what do I know; I'm supposedly bipolar and fly for a greedy airline with a "FAT UAL contract" and God forbid, I use bad metaphors in my posts.

Later.