Ual-alpa t/a leak......

[Deerkiller]

Won't this merger create a new company? I thought we had to get a new FAA certificate?? Then piss on the 70 seaters....those contracts were with a previous airline that is no longer in existence

I believe one of the three(CAL, UAL, Air Mic) certificates survives and the other two are returned to the FAA.

 

[densoo]

I believe one of the three(CAL, UAL, Air Mic) certificates survives and the other two are returned to the FAA.

The UAL is the "buyer" therefore the surviving certificate. The push will be to adopt the way UAL is operating, IOW no scope. Pilots will have to fight to put it back in the bottle.

 

[P38JLightning]

Which certificate survives has little if anything to do with the CBA the new group ebds up with. The company will try to point to the worst of both (while explaining how lucky they would be to accept a 2 year old fuel crisis recent BK emergence contract +1%, etc), the union will try to point to the best of both highlighted against the back drop of improving CBA's, hundreds of millions of quarterly profits and the need to get the merger done being in the best interest of the shareholders way more than outsourcing more jets. What UCAL ends up with as a contract will be what they are willing to negotiate/fight/compromise for and it won't have anything to do with which certificate survives.

 

[IAHERJ]

The UAL is the "buyer" therefore the surviving certificate. The push will be to adopt the way UAL is operating, IOW no scope. Pilots will have to fight to put it back in the bottle.

That is such an ignorant statement on two levels I don't really know how to respond. First of all, the "buyer" doesn't always get the certificate. Second, the certificate has nothing to do with scope. I'm not going to waste any more time arguing this out of touch thought process.

IAHERJ

 

[IAHERJ]

A certificate has important things like ETOPS certification etc. in it. Whose certificate do you think would be more valuable in this merger? The airline who has lots of 767 and 757 aircraft going across the Atlantic along with some Pacific stuff along with 777 ETOPS certification or the airline that doesn't need ETOPS certification on a lot of it's long haul flights due to the equipment having 4 engines? It seems like the CAL certificate has more upside. Not a shot at UAL at all. What it means is that UAL has aircraft that are not in need of ETOPS certification, therefore the UAL 767's and 777's that are etops will remain so under CAL's certificate. You can always add to a certificate but filing a new one is more trouble

 

[bizicmo]

What was that advantage of having the CAL and Air Mic certificate all these years? And if there are any advantages, why wouldn't the Air Mic certificate remain?

 

[Mr.B]

Who really cares which certificate is used? Whats important for us a s pilots is to

1. Get an industry leading contract.
2. Get all 50+ seat aircraft under mainline.

Or, I'm ready to walk and watch those "synergies" fly out the window....With the bonuses!

 

[Mr.B]

Who really cares which certificate is used? Whats important for us as pilots is to

1. Get an industry leading contract.
2. Get all 50+ seat aircraft under mainline.

Or, I'm ready to walk and watch those "synergies" fly out the window....With the bonuses!

 

[densoo]

That is such an ignorant statement on two levels I don't really know how to respond. First of all, the "buyer" doesn't always get the certificate. Second, the certificate has nothing to do with scope. I'm not going to waste any more time arguing this out of touch thought process.

IAHERJ

IAHERJ, Please don't give up the conversation! You are a moderating voice of reason! This wasn't meant to be an all-is-lost off-the-wall incaccurate comment.

As I said in my post there will be a "push" to adopt to UAL's scope. They will use any and all arguments to get it done, whether logical or not. One part of the argument is likely to be, "UAL is the buyer, we don't have scope, since CAL is joining our operation, you need to give up your scope, too. C'mon guys. Let's play nice."

It's not logical, but I'm sure theyll do it as part of the beat-them-back strategy.

Scope has nothing to do with the certificate, I know. It's contractual. But I believe the above is going to be a part of their argument to give up scope, to whomever will listen--parts of the pilot groups, an arbitrator, or the court of public opinion.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

um like duh...they can argue scope all day. We just have to say NO! Period. If they don't say yes a lot at the table well then we won't just say no but HELL NO TIME TO STRIKE!