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UAL 12yr Captain pay
- Thread starter jpeace02
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SteelerMan
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2005
- Posts
- 114
rumrunner300
Old and Bitter
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2006
- Posts
- 113
Not sayin' UAL rates don't suck, but by the time you throw in the 17% B/C contributions (no match required) and deduct the $10/hr that VA has to pay their pilots to wear that stupid-a$$ uniform, it's really not even close. At least TRY to get it out of the infield, junior.
rr
Smoking Man
High Speed Aluminum
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 561
So you are saying that both are equally sad, because I made that at year five on the 190.
Neither pay scale is helping the industry.
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Luckily UAL posted a GREAT profit for Q2 (over $400 million), and is expected to do the same next quarter also. This is a PERFECT time to negotiate for your joint contract with CAL. I read that they want it done in 5 weeks time, and with the profits rolling in they will have a hard time convincing anyone that they cannot afford it. Management wants their own "merger bonuses" in time for XMAS, so they will hopefully agree. When DL and NWA negotiated for their joint contract, oil was at $130 a barrel, IOW bad timing.... Good luck, and go high please. I still have the UAL + 1% sticker on my bag.....
Bye Bye--General Lee
Bye Bye--General Lee
DrewBlows
Go Tigers!
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2003
- Posts
- 2,031
I love this expression. You can say something really offensive and/or be a total butt-hole and it's okay because you say "just sayin."
bearcat
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2005
- Posts
- 163
8 Weeks time actually. That will be a shocker.
As for the UAL rates, they do suck. How would you like to be there and get robbed of everything you worked for by mgt and then watch mgt stuff their pockets with cash?
DL and NW also have a bankruptcy contract. DL + 1 effing dollar will never fly a jet at CAL/UA
****************************** bag, MR. CL65, you probabaly have not been around the industry long enough to even understand what has happened to it. Its the evil "C" word, CONCESSIONS a result of a BANKRUPTCY, did you know UAL was in it? Don't b&tch if you don't know the history. You need to dig up some info and read how the rates got that low and how they will continue to get lower. The CL65 is part of that problem so is every new start up or Republic types out there.
waveflyer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2005
- Posts
- 10,005
And who agreed to outsourcing?
Who got to vote?
ALPA and APA pilots-
sorry but to furlough while outsourcing is unforgivable- mgmt knows you guys have no line in the sand--- but keep blaming everyone else and trying to convince us that you're nothing but a powerless victim.
That's effective
Who got to vote?
ALPA and APA pilots-
sorry but to furlough while outsourcing is unforgivable- mgmt knows you guys have no line in the sand--- but keep blaming everyone else and trying to convince us that you're nothing but a powerless victim.
That's effective
Scope out RJ's
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 31, 2006
- Posts
- 1,926
You can look no further then those asswipe pilots at southwest for negotiating slave labor wages and lousy work rules!
UAL entered into BK thanks to crappy management and southwest pilots willing to work for low wages, along with paying for their jobs. Now UAL is forced to compete with the scum called southwest. Had swapa had any kind of balls and stood up for decent wages/benefits, maybe UAL would have had a leg to stand on.
I just hope for the sake of the rest of the industry they don't try to follow suit with the PFT program at southwest.
UAL entered into BK thanks to crappy management and southwest pilots willing to work for low wages, along with paying for their jobs. Now UAL is forced to compete with the scum called southwest. Had swapa had any kind of balls and stood up for decent wages/benefits, maybe UAL would have had a leg to stand on.
I just hope for the sake of the rest of the industry they don't try to follow suit with the PFT program at southwest.
B727Driver
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2004
- Posts
- 273
It's funny that you took offense to my post. I was just making a comparison. However if you are in the mood to compare apples to oranges, your pay and benefits equation should figure in a 1-5 year furlough at UAL vs a two year upgrade at VA.
DUBLINFLYER
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2006
- Posts
- 395
SWA Pay Scales
Can someone post the pay scales for SWA CP's and FO's and show these SWA bashers what they are really missing - that will give them something else to grip at
Another thing is that the type rating is tax deductable (I know a certain %) and when the Chief Pilot gets up in front of all new hire classes and announces "Welcome to the rest of your life you will never be furloughed". That to all new hires is money well spent.
Can any other airlines Chief Pilot say that to a group of new hires - NAW
Can someone post the pay scales for SWA CP's and FO's and show these SWA bashers what they are really missing - that will give them something else to grip at
Another thing is that the type rating is tax deductable (I know a certain %) and when the Chief Pilot gets up in front of all new hire classes and announces "Welcome to the rest of your life you will never be furloughed". That to all new hires is money well spent.
Can any other airlines Chief Pilot say that to a group of new hires - NAW
The CP at UPS said the same thing.
CA Calypso
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2006
- Posts
- 77
nimtz
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Posts
- 1,442
Yep to further dilute the koolaid, how about the Pan Am Chief Pilot who said "Congratulations men, you are all going to be Supersonic Transport Pilots."
Yeah right-that aircraft would have gone way junior. The cockpit was TINY.
Dublin,
Per your request.
Yr
12........206..........144
11........204..........143
10........201..........141
9.........199...........137
8.........197...........136
7.........195...........132
6.........193...........129
5.........190...........124
4.........188...........108
3.........186...........102
2.........184...........92
1.........181............54
Junior most Capt was hired in Jul '01 as I recall. SWA has downgraded approximately 100 CA's to FOs over the last year, not something SWA has done before but was done to level the manning between the two seats.
________________
Dear Scope Out RJ,
As to your comments about SWA, certainly your view is one perspective, you certainly don't disguise your bias against SWA's business model but that is OK....others on here cheer for SWA's demise which would result in the demise of fellow pilots.
However, that model has been dissected by more academicians and experts than any other airline; most have found SWA to be both a successful business using either normal business standards or even the unhealthy standards found in the airline industry.
Since you don't list your expert qualifications I'm hesitant to take your opinion as the last word on the subject over the likes of Wall Street experts, airline analysts and objective observers of the industry. Maybe if you would like to share your credentials, I'd reconsider sharing your view of SWA's limitations and injurious business practices to the industry overall and to the ultimate judge of a company's worth, its customers, the American public.
To the 3780+ pilots identified below who are on furlough I would think that if given a choice and the opportunity (I know some of them did apply and for whatever reason weren't selected) to fly at SWA even with "evil" PFT and substandard wages/retirements, you might find their view a little different.
BTW, we have quite a few of these furloughed pilots and the ones I've talked to haven't shown much interest in going back to their old airline. Must be the koolaid (or steady paycheck) or a myriad of other reasons.
I hate to think of anyone losing their job in these tough economic times. Each of those numbers below represent families, children, spouses who have suffered through the harshest of economic troubles....my prayers are with them as I can not imagine their pain as I have never been furloughed.
Bashing fellow pilots who are employed at either SWA or regional (because of a dislike for scope clauses) or legacy carriers (because they have given away flying to regional carriers) says more about those who spout those thoughts than the intended target.
As stated, I have never lived through a furlough and hope never to....one reason why I chose SWA. I realize more and more how fortunate that choice has been. I wish only the best for other airlines in hopes of bringing their furloughed pilots back to work.
Their's enough brutality in this business without pilots attacking the few companies that are providing steady employment to fellow pilots. Just my $.02.
CAL was showing 147 furloughed. (July 26, 2010)
UAL 1437 furloughed (May 2010)
DAL & HAL showing 0 furloughed
US Air 220+ (July '10)
AA 1890 furloughed (Jun '10)
Alaska 93 furloughed (July '10)
All info from airlinepilotcentral.com
Per your request.
Yr
12........206..........144
11........204..........143
10........201..........141
9.........199...........137
8.........197...........136
7.........195...........132
6.........193...........129
5.........190...........124
4.........188...........108
3.........186...........102
2.........184...........92
1.........181............54
Junior most Capt was hired in Jul '01 as I recall. SWA has downgraded approximately 100 CA's to FOs over the last year, not something SWA has done before but was done to level the manning between the two seats.
________________
Dear Scope Out RJ,
As to your comments about SWA, certainly your view is one perspective, you certainly don't disguise your bias against SWA's business model but that is OK....others on here cheer for SWA's demise which would result in the demise of fellow pilots.
However, that model has been dissected by more academicians and experts than any other airline; most have found SWA to be both a successful business using either normal business standards or even the unhealthy standards found in the airline industry.
Since you don't list your expert qualifications I'm hesitant to take your opinion as the last word on the subject over the likes of Wall Street experts, airline analysts and objective observers of the industry. Maybe if you would like to share your credentials, I'd reconsider sharing your view of SWA's limitations and injurious business practices to the industry overall and to the ultimate judge of a company's worth, its customers, the American public.
To the 3780+ pilots identified below who are on furlough I would think that if given a choice and the opportunity (I know some of them did apply and for whatever reason weren't selected) to fly at SWA even with "evil" PFT and substandard wages/retirements, you might find their view a little different.
BTW, we have quite a few of these furloughed pilots and the ones I've talked to haven't shown much interest in going back to their old airline. Must be the koolaid (or steady paycheck) or a myriad of other reasons.
I hate to think of anyone losing their job in these tough economic times. Each of those numbers below represent families, children, spouses who have suffered through the harshest of economic troubles....my prayers are with them as I can not imagine their pain as I have never been furloughed.
Bashing fellow pilots who are employed at either SWA or regional (because of a dislike for scope clauses) or legacy carriers (because they have given away flying to regional carriers) says more about those who spout those thoughts than the intended target.
As stated, I have never lived through a furlough and hope never to....one reason why I chose SWA. I realize more and more how fortunate that choice has been. I wish only the best for other airlines in hopes of bringing their furloughed pilots back to work.
Their's enough brutality in this business without pilots attacking the few companies that are providing steady employment to fellow pilots. Just my $.02.
CAL was showing 147 furloughed. (July 26, 2010)
UAL 1437 furloughed (May 2010)
DAL & HAL showing 0 furloughed
US Air 220+ (July '10)
AA 1890 furloughed (Jun '10)
Alaska 93 furloughed (July '10)
All info from airlinepilotcentral.com
Last edited:
Smoking Man
High Speed Aluminum
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 561
I will compare, year 6 Captain at jetblue (me) on an E-190 out earns an A-320 captain at VA.
For now......
Come on pal let's be friends. We don't know even know each other, if we did you'd understand that I'm a huge d-bag. As far as the history goes, let's get serious. That was years and many Ted's ago, (people in Chicago still wonder what the hell Ted is when they see it on the faded CTA bus sticker.)
Somehow the new Delta has 12,000 pilots, a failed marketing strategy as well (even worse name Song), more overhead than United, and there contract is still better. Not to mention SWA's contract.
I really hope the UAL/CAL pilots get something good, it's good for all of us. But it's a disgrace right now.
P38JLightning
Well Endowed Member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 223
The chunk that management took from the pilot group was so large that they can give a small fraction of it back and make it look like a "big raise" and while they are at it, trick the pilots into giving up more scope, or at the very least allowing the current level of job killing insanity. Watch for it.
Full of LUV
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2002
- Posts
- 1,021
Full of LUV
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2002
- Posts
- 1,021
Chase,
Great points except that if it weren't for SWAPA carrying the torch for age 65 for all those years and eventually coercing ALPA and the FAA to go along, how many of those above furloughs would have been mitigated, and how many more pilots would have been hired by SWA due to their movement?
BK's, economic factors, scope issues, industry consolidation all contributed to the furloughs, but SWAPA's age 65 initiative couldn't have come to fruition at a worse time to exacerbate it.
You and a few others seem to express dismay for the furloughs, but for most of the senior pilots, it's a "part of the industry that is to be endured".
No doubt that SWAPA spent the better part of the 80's and 90's with substandard pay, no retirement and no medical past retirement, hence their outstanding success at growth.
I give their mgt kudos for fostering a loyal pilot corps despite those factors during those decades, and they earn those kudos by absorbing extra labor during slow periods instead of following most other mgmts down the furlough path.
At first the legacies though they could compete on the backs of regionals and the backs of their labor. Now that SWAPA has drug the rest of the industry down to them or below hem through competition which lead to BK's and consolidation, we'll see how much difference there is going forward.
SWA runs a pretty conservative operation, always have. They leave millions of potential profit behind when things are good, but don't absorb huge losses when things aren't. They continue to set the market for many of the domestic routes, but increasingly the VA's, JB's, AT's of the domestic system will start to become a thorn in their side.
Best of luck to us all........
LUV
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