UA "national seniority list"

[Ralph Cramden]

I hope the CAL guys merge the UAL guys in like the Un-tied pilots did to the Air Wisconsin pilots in 1991 when Yo-nited bought AirWis . :smash:

+1 Amen! There is a special place in my heart for the UAL MEC of that era. What goes around comes around, so lube up UAL.

 

[ualdriver]

+1 Amen! There is a special place in my heart for the UAL MEC of that era. What goes around comes around, so lube up UAL.

Ralph-

We have 1400+ guys on the street, and you're hoping they get "lubed up" again in preparation of the possibility of UAL merging with someone else? Nice.

In turn, I'm sure there are many, many United pilots (among others at other airlines) who have to compete against YET ANOTHER narrowbody bottom-feeder that hope you meet the same fate as some of your peer airlines like Skybus, Western Pacific, etc. What comes around, goes around, right?

I fly ORD-SFO quite often, and see many strangely-uniformed airline pilots asking for a ride between this city pair. If any of Ralph's friends at Virgin want to discuss what they hope happens to UAL during a merger, feel free to mention that when asking for your ride. I'm sure just about every pilot at UAL would love to have that discussion with you.

 

[Regul8r]

UAL pilots feathering their own nest at the espense of their fellow pilots. Hey, if UAL goes out of business, we'll be backed up by a national seniority list. If we merge with CAL: we'll make sure they bottom for us.

Classy, guys.

 

[densoo]

If we merge with CAL: we'll make sure they bottom for us.

And well you should. It's not personal, it's just business.

The other party involved in your merger has no idea what's coming.

For example, the very day the Star Alliance was announced the UAL MEC posted a new, integrated jumpseat procedure that logically accounted for pilot priorities on each others' jumpseats.

The other MEC was just "Wha!"

That's about what the response will be every step of the way through this process.

"Wha!"

 

[Furloughed80]

The other MEC was just "Wha!"

That's about what the response will be every step of the way through this process.

"Wha!"

I would have to strongly disagree with this. The members of the CAL Merger Committee are highly experienced and very qualified. I would put our MC above any other airline's by a long shot. I am fascinated by the fact that there are people who think that an integrated list between CAL and UAL would deviate from relative seniority. Precedent has been set by the DAL/NWA merger. Do you honestly believe that they will integrate the CAL/UAL list by only taking DOH into consideration? Come on.

 

[densoo]

I would have to strongly disagree with this. The members of the CAL Merger Committee are highly experienced and very qualified. I would put our MC above any other airline's by a long shot. I am fascinated by the fact that there are people who think that an integrated list between CAL and UAL would deviate from relative seniority. Precedent has been set by the DAL/NWA merger. Do you honestly believe that they will integrate the CAL/UAL list by only taking DOH into consideration? Come on.

I appreciate your voice of reason.

But they only have to convince one person, and that's the integration list mediator/arbitrator, and that's what they seem to getting ready to do at some point. At every turn they have shown themselves to be forward thinking and ahead of the game.

When in the last 25 years has the other pilot group not been taken advantage of. Contract after contract, issue after issue, it all seems to be reactionary and behind the eight ball.

It's not the MC that concerns me. I have a great deal of confidence in them and many others in leadership. But the MC, the NC, the MEC can only do as much as the pilots allow them to. And the pilots seem to short circuit the process time and time again to get a bad outcome.

I hope you're right, though.

 

[SuperFLUF]

And well you should. It's not personal, it's just business....

What about principles, morality and ethics?

Scumbags can't hide behind the "its just business.." tripe and think that it covers up the smell.

 

[eaglesview]

All I know is we have to keep debating this topic in depth as I heard the arbitrator will be signing on to this website to make his decision. Isn't it funny that we, "the all powerful UAL pilot group" have changed the ALPA merger policy, c'mon.

Here is a theory AAA/AWA merger occurs under the old policy and it cost ALPA Millions upon Millions in dues when Usair told them take a hike. Maybe just maybe they woke up and realized that longevity does count for something.

That being said in the end an arbitrator will decide if and when it is required. All this debat on here is a waste of time. Pilots post crap on here just to fire up the other pilot group.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Would it have been such a travesty if the TWA or Midex pilots got their DOH when they got bought. Or if Frontier would have gotten DOH from SWA. I think not. That should be the price to pay if you merge. If you do not want to pay that price, do not merge and fight it like Frontier or Delta did. DOH always works in the long run. It is just the short sighted greedy pilot who wants a quick upgrade that is blinded by his greed and sense of entitlement who opposes someones seniority.

M

Surely you can't be that naive about DOH?

 

[densoo]

All this debat on here is a waste of time. Pilots post crap on here just to fire up the other pilot group.

And sometimes it's an attempt to fire up their own pilot group.

 

[chppr5]

What about principles, morality and ethics?

Scumbags can't hide behind the "its just business.." tripe and think that it covers up the smell.

A national seniority list is long over due. You talk about principles, morality and ethics? How about all those Pan Am, Eastern, Midway guys that had to start over at the commuters in the early '90's. I was low time in my class with 3500 hrs, sitting beside 747 captains, 727 captains and DC-9 captains not to mention the wide body F/O's. How about the ATA,TWA, USAir,AMR,UAL,ALOHA and CAL pilots out on the street now that can't take their DOH/longevity to another airline for pay purposes. A national list does not take your seat, but will protect your pay if you have to move to another union carrier. Some day you naysayers may actually benefit from a national list, but until then is all about me me me. Management loves the bickering between pilot groups. Until we ALL start pulling on the same end of the rope to fix this profession the race to the bottom will continue. Imagine being able to make a lateral move, pay wise, in this industry.....what a concept. Progressive thinking will make this a profession again, maybe this will make ALPA National start to think outside the box.

 

[8v8ter]

A national seniority list is long over due. You talk about principles, morality and ethics? How about all those Pan Am, Eastern, Midway guys that had to start over at the commuters in the early '90's. I was low time in my class with 3500 hrs, sitting beside 747 captains, 727 captains and DC-9 captains not to mention the wide body F/O's. How about the ATA,TWA, USAir,AMR,UAL,ALOHA and CAL pilots out on the street now that can't take their DOH/longevity to another airline for pay purposes. A national list does not take your seat, but will protect your pay if you have to move to another union carrier. Some day you naysayers may actually benefit from a national list, but until then is all about me me me. Management loves the bickering between pilot groups. Until we ALL start pulling on the same end of the rope to fix this profession the race to the bottom will continue. Imagine being able to make a lateral move, pay wise, in this industry.....what a concept. Progressive thinking will make this a profession again, maybe this will make ALPA National start to think outside the box.

Bravo!! Do CPA's or engineers or other professionals start at the bottom of a pay scale if their former employer goes under? Yet as airline pilots we have to hope and pray we chose wisely and that our employer doesn't go under or our management, who if they fail move on to higher paying jobs, doesn't run the airline into the ground within the next 20-30 years.

 

[eaglesview]

And sometimes it's an attempt to fire up their own pilot group.

Right, because the majority of said airlines pilot group come here for the latest due to the accuracy of the information here!!??

 

[pianoman]

.....That should be the price to pay if you merge. If you do not want to pay that price, do not merge and fight it like Frontier or Delta did. DOH always works in the long run. It is just the short sighted greedy pilot who wants a quick upgrade that is blinded by his greed and sense of entitlement who opposes someones seniority.

M

Ummm.... as a 2007 CAL hire I am able to hold 737 FO or 757/767 in any base we have, comfortably. A 97 hire is probably in the same position with regards to the left seat.

At United, the 97 hire is a reserve narrow-body FO and a 98 hire is on the street. I don't expect to move up or get a "quick upgrade", but I don't think that wanting to maintain my current status and percentage in base is greedy.

DOH would shove me to the street and bring a UA pilot back in my seat? I don't think that's fair. You are what you were before the merger, after the merger, IMO.

 

[densoo]

Right, because the majority of said airlines pilot group come here for the latest due to the accuracy of the information here!!??

Ha. True enough. Maybe the poster is just trying to fire himself up.