UA "national seniority list"

[IAHERJ]

Then maybe UAL needs to go it alone. I'd be happy with CAL doing what it is doing and if my "Expectations" are not met, it will be an outside force causing the disruption, not a merger with UAL. You are correct that things happen. Problem is I accepted employment with a carrier that was growing and hiring during a mini bull market and one that has ridden out this recession better than other airlines. As retirements pick up pace at the same time aircraft deliveries(WB and LNB) continue to come online it is the common opinion that one might see movement on a seniority list at a healthy carrier coming out of a recession. This is not some irrational, overreaching goal. Granted I am not going out making large purchases on credit cards expecting to hold 777 FO or 737 CA next year. I think a conservative estimate would call for 20% movement on the CAL seniority list over the next 5 years(very conservative). Not knowing the retirement numbers at UAL, I can't speak for the UAL pilot group. I do know that there are little to no planned aircraft deliveries in the next 5 years.
I can't even begin know how if feels to be furloughed. Perhaps I will walk in your shoes one day. I sincerely hope UAL finds a way to grow and recall all of you effected by the mismanagement you have endured over the past decade. If we do merge, I hope we can do our bests to keep the personal feelings out of the cockpit.

 

[Shrek]

Then maybe UAL needs to go it alone. I'd be happy with CAL doing what it is doing and if my "Expectations" are not met, it will be an outside force causing the disruption, not a merger with UAL. You are correct that things happen. Problem is I accepted employment with a carrier that was growing and hiring during a mini bull market and one that has ridden out this recession better than other airlines. As retirements pick up pace at the same time aircraft deliveries(WB and LNB) continue to come online it is the common opinion that one might see movement on a seniority list at a healthy carrier coming out of a recession. This is not some irrational, overreaching goal. Granted I am not going out making large purchases on credit cards expecting to hold 777 FO or 737 CA next year. I think a conservative estimate would call for 20% movement on the CAL seniority list over the next 5 years(very conservative). Not knowing the retirement numbers at UAL, I can't speak for the UAL pilot group. I do know that there are little to no planned aircraft deliveries in the next 5 years.
I can't even begin know how if feels to be furloughed. Perhaps I will walk in your shoes one day. I sincerely hope UAL finds a way to grow and recall all of you effected by the mismanagement you have endured over the past decade. If we do merge, I hope we can do our bests to keep the personal feelings out of the cockpit.

Absolutely right............I am a UAL furloughee and I want to come back to the job BUT NOT at the expense of a CAL pilot. If we merge then we need to start working together to make it a career worth coming back to.

Be safe.

 

[Deerkiller]

Well, I don't want to sound like Mr. Roger's but let me help you learn a few 'new words' just three; 'Fences, Conditions and Restrictions'

Any merger/integration of seniority whether done by DOH or otherwise, should contain specific Fences, Conditions and Restrictions; then your concerns are addressed and if done right, offer protection for everyone involved.

As far as a UAL/CAL merger; just a some thoughts from someone who doesn't work for either carrier. But, if done right, could create a Powerful Global carrier; with 'HUGE Asian presence' major market on the west coast of the U.S. (LAX, SFO, PDX, SEA), major hubs in prime markets covering most areas of the country (IAH, ORD, DEN, EWR, etc).

-In short, once the world economy comes back (even if not as strong as it once was, still), a carrier that would be a Strong 'revenue generation' machine. Thus, able to 'pay' higher wages and benefits; then F/O pay would be back to what it once was, so 'if' maybe you had to wait just a few years longer to be 'El Capitan Grande' you would be making much more than just a 'living wage, bus driver pay'

BUT, NOTHING will change as long as it is 'ME ME ME ME' just give me that 'left seat' I Want, I Want, and so on!!!!!!

Just my thoughts, many of the 'so called pilots' on this board makes me SICK, because wayyyyy to many will stab another pilot in the back just to get to that precious 'left seat' and Management will 'laugh their a$$ off' because someday, someday, they know that they can use that pilot that you stabbed in the back, to 'cut your throat'!!!!!! At least a little Truth in all that.

Until ALL pilots in this country work as ONE; this will continue to be 'just a job' (or alittle better than others), but NOT ever again, a PROFESSION.

The Lufthansa pilots went on strike to say, if it say 'LUFTHANSA' on the side of the plane, or on the flight# then it is ALL covered by ONE CONTRACT, peroid!!!!!!

When EVER PILOT in this country 'walks for at least a day or two' to say the same thing!!!! Then I will be impressed.

Sorry for the long 'rant' but thought it had to be said...

For what its worth.

PD

Where did you get the ME ME ME attitude from his post? He said he wanted his status and percentage post merger.

 

[eaglesview]

Then maybe UAL needs to go it alone. I'd be happy with CAL doing what it is doing and if my "Expectations" are not met, it will be an outside force causing the disruption, not a merger with UAL. You are correct that things happen. Problem is I accepted employment with a carrier that was growing and hiring during a mini bull market and one that has ridden out this recession better than other airlines. As retirements pick up pace at the same time aircraft deliveries(WB and LNB) continue to come online it is the common opinion that one might see movement on a seniority list at a healthy carrier coming out of a recession. This is not some irrational, overreaching goal. Granted I am not going out making large purchases on credit cards expecting to hold 777 FO or 737 CA next year. I think a conservative estimate would call for 20% movement on the CAL seniority list over the next 5 years(very conservative). Not knowing the retirement numbers at UAL, I can't speak for the UAL pilot group. I do know that there are little to no planned aircraft deliveries in the next 5 years.
I can't even begin know how if feels to be furloughed. Perhaps I will walk in your shoes one day. I sincerely hope UAL finds a way to grow and recall all of you effected by the mismanagement you have endured over the past decade. If we do merge, I hope we can do our bests to keep the personal feelings out of the cockpit.

Let's see we have 2 years and 9 months left until we start retiring in force again yet your "conservative" estimate is that in 2 years and 3 months you will move up 20%. What 1 in 5 pilots are going to retire in a span of 27 months?? You really believe that?
If we merge I hope you are right, at that point there would be nothing to worry about. One more thing, all of us have our opinion on this crap and like to fling the mud around but reality is none of us will have a say so sit back and enjoy the ride. We will ALL still be better off than most of the nation.

 

[johnsonrod]

Quit fighting, it will all go the way of Delta and Northwest. Relative seniority will rule, and hopefully you will get a raise in a joint contract beforehand. Don´t stress out so much, arbitrators will decide for you.

 

[jumppilot]

Let's see we have 2 years and 9 months left until we start retiring in force again yet your "conservative" estimate is that in 2 years and 3 months you will move up 20%. What 1 in 5 pilots are going to retire in a span of 27 months?? You really believe that?
If we merge I hope you are right, at that point there would be nothing to worry about. One more thing, all of us have our opinion on this crap and like to fling the mud around but reality is none of us will have a say so sit back and enjoy the ride. We will ALL still be better off than most of the nation.

CAL is losing about 100 a year, even during these lean retirement years. 20% may be a bit high, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to move up 500 (10%)

 

[IAHERJ]

CAL is losing about 100 a year, even during these lean retirement years. 20% may be a bit high, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to move up 500 (10%)

My numbers also account for "movement" due to aircraft deliveries and fleet growth. Not just retirements. In 2018, UAL begins to have huge retirement #'s as well which also help a combined carrier. Again, just my opinion. Not meant to be gospel. And johonsorod is correct. The arbitrator will have the last say, all we should be doing is enjoying the ride.

 

[eaglesview]

My numbers also account for "movement" due to aircraft deliveries and fleet growth. Not just retirements. In 2018, UAL begins to have huge retirement #'s as well which also help a combined carrier. Again, just my opinion. Not meant to be gospel. And johonsorod is correct. The arbitrator will have the last say, all we should be doing is enjoying the ride.

You are absolutley correct about that. I have read that in life most of what we spend our time worrying about never comes true.

 

[Splert]

A national seniority list is not possible without an Act from Congress.

Seniority is something that is negotiated or agreed to with the carrier you work for.

For a national seniority list to work then each pilot group would have to negoiate with the airline it works at for seniority rights for other pilots that are not on the seniority list at that time. Every airline would have to agree.

What are you willing to give up in pay and benefits in order to secure a new contract provision that extends seniority of pilots not on the current seniority list?

ALPA has zero to do with the lack of creation of a National Seniority List instead it is the simple fact that seniority is not a right is a negotiated contract provision.

I don't see UAL, DAL, US, FedEx, Alaska and HAL management EVER agreeing to a contract provision that grants seniority to pilots that it never hired.

 

[waveflyer]

It would have to have strong leadership at ALPA national- but it could be done