Type Rating Question...

[User546]

A High altitude endorsement is not applicable in this case as the 402 is non-pressurized aircraft.

My ignorance on the plane then! Thanks for the information!

 

[bocefus]

The service ceiling is above 25K, but a high altitude endorsement is not required as this is a non-pressurized aircraft.

 

[IP076]

The service ceiling is above 25K, but a high altitude endorsement is not required as this is a non-pressurized aircraft.

This is where the wierd part starts.....read the reg....

It says...pressurized aircraft (an aircraft having a service ceiling of higher than 25000'). Not quite word for word, but it would seem that for this part it defines the term "Pressurized Aircraft" as an aircraft having a service ceiling of higher than 25K.

Seems odd though, I guess you can read it either way.

EDIT:

Here is a clip from the reg:

(g) Additional training required for operating pressurized aircraft capable of operating at high altitudes. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (g)(3) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a pressurized aircraft (an aircraft that has a service ceiling or maximum operating altitude, whichever is lower, above 25,000 feet MSL), unless that person has received and logged ground training from an authorized instructor and obtained an endorsement in the person's logbook or training record from an authorized instructor who certifies the person has satisfactorily accomplished the ground training. The ground training must include at least the following subjects:

To me it appears to define the term "Pressurized Aircraft" as having to do with Operating Ceiling instead of any pressurization system.

 

[bocefus]

Unfortunately, we do not get to read into what we think it means, this is the domain of the FSDO gurus and this is one area where interpretation has been consistant throughout the country. The high altitude endorsement is only applicable when operating a PRESSURIZED aircraft.

 

[IP076]

Unfortunately, we do not get to read into what we think it means, this is the domain of the FSDO gurus and this is one area where interpretation has been consistant throughout the country. The high altitude endorsement is only applicable when operating a PRESSURIZED aircraft.

I'm not arguing that point, I want to know what the definition of pressurized aircraft is? "Pressurized Aircraft" does not appear in 1.1. So, the only reference we have to determine the FAA's definition of "Pressurized Aircraft" is what is listed above.

If you can point me to a FAA Definition of "Pressurized Aircraft" I'll take a look at it, until then, I'll go on the safe side, anything with a ceiling of over 25K like it says above needs a High Altitude Endorsement.

 

[bocefus]

Do as you wish, I am clearly telling you that it is not applicable for non-pressurized aircraft. If you have doubts, verify what I am saying with your local FSDO.

 

[casper1nine]

the reg is for pressurized aircraft that have a service ceiling above 25k, that is pretty plain to read. an HAE is not required for example in a p210, even though it is a pressurized aircraft. a non-pressurized a/c that can climb above 25k does not require the pilot hold a high alt. end.

bocefus is correct.

-casper

 

[IP076]

the reg is for pressurized aircraft that have a service ceiling above 25k, that is pretty plain to read. an HAE is not required for example in a p210, even though it is a pressurized aircraft. a non-pressurized a/c that can climb above 25k does not require the pilot hold a high alt. end.

bocefus is correct.

-casper

Thats cool....got a reference? I agree it doesnt apply to a P210....less than 25K and all....

I'll have to talk it over with our POI and see what he says.....

 

[casper1nine]

i just read 61.31(g)(1) to be applicable to pressurized aircraft, specifically (as parenthetically denoted) to be those having a sevice ceiling or Max Op Alt above 25K. that's just how i read it.

reading a little further, the flight training required to get the endorsement deals with a simulated rapid decompression, a phenomena unique to cabins inflated to greater than ambient pressure, not to all aircraft loitering about above 25k.

-casper1nine

 

[nosehair]

If you can point me to a FAA Definition of "Pressurized Aircraft" I'll take a look at it, until then, I'll go on the safe side, anything with a ceiling of over 25K like it says above needs a High Altitude Endorsement.

I can't point you to an actual definition, but I'll ask you to consider one of the training requirements for the High Altitude endorsement:
FAR 61.31(g)(2)(ii) "Proper emergency procedures for simulated rapid decompression without actually depressurizing the aircraft."

Also, the heading after the regilation number 61.31 says: "Additional training required for operating pressurized aircraft capable of operating at high altitudes."

The definition is within the reg: Airplanes capable of 25000 AND pressurized.