two questions

[Archer]

Is it possible to have an good paying flying job eventually in a piston twin or the smaller twin turboprops like the King Airs without every setting foot on a jet?

I say this because that's the type of flying I would be interested in.

Second question, any advice of flight schools in florida where I can get good quality training, lots of multi time and a chance to be hired as a CFI from the same school without paying excessively.

Especially schools that deal with international students and hire them as CFIs.

I've been looking at European Flight Training, Orlando Flight Training and Naples Air Center since these also provide training for the European JAA licences, and I would be interested in getting both the JAA and FAA licences.

The others are the big names like FlightSafety and Pan Am. Also I've been looking at Phoenix East Aviation, as I heard they hire some of their foreign students as CFIs...

any experiences or knowledge of these schools would be greatly appreciated

thanx

Archer

 

[Gulfstreamlover]

Don't need jet time to fly turbines, hell you don't even need jet time fly some jets.

 

[Archer]

no, I was wondering if I could make a good living eventually flying only piston twins and smaller turboprops...and not venturing into the jet arena.

I.e. can someone make good money if they have say 3000 hours in just a coupel types of piston twins...won't employers like that and pay you more?

I know you don't need jet time to fly turboprops

 

[Gulfstreamlover]

It's not so much your time your getting paid for, it's your job. If a 5,000 hour pilot and a 10,000 pilot both fly a King Air 200, chances are they'll both be getting the same salary. Now some places will pay more if you have more time on type. You sure could make a living off flying turbo props. I've seen 60-70,000 a year flying King Air 350's. You could always start you own charter company with a Baron or King Air.

 

[WrightAvia]

at one charter outfit I was making 400 dollars a month base and 150 a day for piston twin 135 and pilot services flying. When you got up into the conquest they moved you in to salary, which was 45,000 a year.

Included medical, vacation and all the other things that come with a full time job.

I didn't make much under 32,000 the first year flying piston twins for them and my last and 3rd year I was making 38,000 a year on the daily rate.

Currently flying turbines for a 135 cargo outfit. Great place to work and my third year pay, including perdiem is going to be over 40,000 dollars. We don't work weekends or holidays and the company is really good on the mechanical side of the operation.

 

[Gulfstreamlover]

That reminds me, a company a couple guys I shared a hotle van with was paying 45,000 a year on a King Air 200 and 35,000 a year on a Navajo Chieftan. I think it was Pro Pilot that used to (or still does) the average salary of pilots every year and last years was some thing like 35,000-65,000 for King Air drivers with an average of around 40,000.

 

[Archer]

so it is very unlikely to be getting like 60 to 90k a year flying pistons twins or turboprops...even if you have been flying them for like 5 or 6 years with like thousands of hours in them?

See, because I get the impression that to make more money in the aviation world, you gott fly bigger, faster and higher. You gotta start with piston twins, move to small turboprops then larger ones, then small jets and then jets that get ever bigger.

And yet I also heard it's much more difficult to fly a Cessna 402 single engine than any jet...

 

[Gulfstreamlover]

I can't think of any airplane you'd be getting 90K for unless you where chief pilot for a 135 company with a lot of King Airs and Barons and so on. Maybe capt. on a corporate Saab 2000 would pay like that, but the only way to make that money on turbines would be reginionals or as chief pilot for a company with a couple airplanes.

 

[banned username 2]

so it is very unlikely to be getting like 60 to 90k a year flying pistons twins or turboprops...even if you have been flying them for like 5 or 6 years with like thousands of hours in them?

See, because I get the impression that to make more money in the aviation world, you gott fly bigger, faster and higher.

You are right... It doesn't matter if you have 10,000 hours in Cessna 402's, If you are flying Cessna 402's you are still going to make typical Cessna 402 pay...

If you want to make decent money ($90k) you are pretty much going to need to make it into the jet arena... And probably something bigger than a Citation II or a LearJet...

 

[Gulfstreamlover]

What would a chief pilot for a frieght company with 20 Caravans make? How 'bout a charter company with 5 King Airs? What about Cape Air's Chief pilot, wouldn't you think he'd make decent money?

 

[banned username 2]

What would a chief pilot for a frieght company with 20 Caravans make? How 'bout a charter company with 5 King Airs? What about Cape Air's Chief pilot, wouldn't you think he'd make decent money?

First off, usually at these companies the Chief Pilot is a non-flying position, he wants to fly... Plus, he'd have to work a LOT of years to even get the Chief Pilot position.

I'm sure there are a few exceptions to the rule, but typically there is no "Big Money" flying piston twins or even light Turbo-Props...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Hey Archer-

why the dream to fly around in piston twins?
I really cant think of any great jobs where you do this??..

real world aviation is not a WINGS episode.

real world aviation in a piston twin is flying some half broken POS 402 or Baron at 0230 to drop off a bag of checks or pick up a drunk gambler in Atlantic City. Then you land and your scumbag boss chews you out for using the brakes too much or buying too much gas somewhere. I could go on and on but I hope you get the point here...

Now you may say..."well, I like being home every night"...would you rather do a 6-7 day trip in a GV and come home and have a solid guaranteed week off or would you rather lay in bed at home every night and wait for that 0200 call to come to do a charter in that piston twin? see where Im going here?

Plain and simple - the best jobs outside the airlines involve flying the biggest jet equipment made. You want a good job outside the airlines? go get a job flying a GV. Sit there at FL 510 flying to a 5 star hotel somewhere, then come home and enjoy your time off and your money - and most importanty in my book - your family.

I hope you find your dream piston twin or turboprop job....but I would bet any money that this dream will wear off very quick and you will want to advance to the good jobs - and they unfortunalty involve flying large aircaft Internationally - and trust me - that aint all that bad!!

 

[Archer]

Thanx for the replies everyone, very good points.

Hey Archer-

why the dream to fly around in piston twins?
I really cant think of any great jobs where you do this??..

Gulfstream 200, the reason I want to fly twins is because I reather be ablet to say at the end of a working day "Hey honey, well today I flew over to one of the islands in the Bahamas and picked up a couple passengers from a little airstrip. It was beautiful, the crystal green waters and the weather was great"

instead of "Hey honey, today I flew from LAX to JFK at 50,000 ft...sat there for 5 hours...then lined up for the 12,000 ft runway...had to wait an hour for the clearance to take off as there was a lot of traffic"

The points you made are very valid, and I realize that there is really no way to make a good living flying a 402 for the rest of my life and getting woken up at 0230 as you said to fly right there and then and haul some checks.

So there really are two options. The first is what you mentioned, flying Gulfstreams and Falcons, possibly internationally...making a lot of money and having good benefits.

The other option is starting my own 135 charter. I am fortunate enough to have parents that would be able to help me out with an initial investment.

I could buy a Baron or Seneca or something like that, hire a mechanic/secretary, and be owner and pilot. See how that goes, then perhaps hire another pilot and buy another plane if I'm successful.

 

[CE402]

Hello Archer,
At Cape Air you will not break the bank, certainly....especially since they operate in some places with $$ real estate prices (New England, Naples FL, Virgin Islands), but you'll make decent money flying in well maintained equipment in some nice areas. You get profit sharing, medical/dental, jumpseat, etc. and lots of people who have worked at Cape Air and gone on to the bigger money/bigger iron said that they miss it and never enjoyed a job more -- even if they couldn't have the prime lifestyle. It all depends what you're looking for. Good luck. (By the way, all the flight management types -- Chief Pilot, D.O., and even the Pres and VP are active line pilots, though mostly in the busy season. Hope this helps.)

 

[Northern Lights]

Welcome back Archer...

Recently, there was a thread titled something like "Do you really love flying?" There were a lot of guys in there that were in other lines of work, but did some flying on the side, and truly enjoyed it, even if it wasn't their full time profession.

It is very likely that you could make a very good living outside of aviation, but still own your own plane, or even fly part time for someone that operates a king air or barron.

do a search, and I'm sure that you can find that thread, which was active just htis week, I think.

Here's the thread .

 

[avbug]

the best jobs outside the airlines involve flying the biggest jet equipment made.

In your opinion, only. I would strongly disagree.

There's nothing better than the smell of smoke in the cockpit, a round engine for background noise, and the view looking up at a ridgeline.

Or pushing over into a field covered in the greenish hue of aphids.

Or...face it. The best jobs are the ones you love. Stuff the money.

If it were about the money, we'd all be lawyers.

 

[350DRIVER]

First off, usually at these companies the Chief Pilot is a non-flying position, he wants to fly... Plus, he'd have to work a LOT of years to even get the Chief Pilot position.

I have to strongly disagree with you... What "factual" data have you looked at to be making this strong of a comment.?? Most chief pilots I know of FLY as well as doing everything else...



"non-flying position"?- come on Falc.....-


3 5 0

 

[Gulfstreamlover]

In replies to Gulfstreams post.

I flew with a company with two brand new aircraft. A King Air 200 and a Baron 58. The full time pilot had a schedule a month in advance only had to go in on the day's he flew, and had access to the Baron for free. The boss let him take his family on vacation in that Baron and he paid for every thing. Ramp fees, fuel, every thing. He flew about 3 days a week, stayed in the nicest hotels, and loved his job. Made $50,000 a year and had a part time job flying a Westwind on the side that the CEO got him at his buddies company. So there are a few good jobs out there. You just have to know where to go....

 

[Gulfstream 200]

well avbug, I certainly admire your passion for flying.

I just cant relate to sleeping in hangars, flying through firestorms, fixing planes all night.. etc...but hey, to each his own.

I simply think for 99.9% of us, Quality of Life means everything.

And QOL comes down to job security, time off, and MONEY. If you have a family and a home (QOL) you simply need MONEY to keep it running. Money allows you to live in a nice area where you children can attend good schools and start a successful life. To say money does not matter and you just want the "dream" is great when you are 18 yrs old - enjoy it then - because when reality kicks in things change.

Archer, your dream is real sweet....sounds like a good Jimmy Buffett song.

mom and dad buying you your piston twin so you can experience this tale?.......

Its a fairy tale man, hate to pop your bubble. Maybe consider something outside avaition, make a lot of money, then enjoy the dreams..

But heck, we have gone through this SO many times...good luck to ya! -

Maybe you can get CitationKid to fly with you and that other kid who was buying MD11's to bankroll the whole operation.

 

[Citationkid]

Maybe you can get CitationKid to fly with you and that other kid who was buying MD11's to bankroll the whole operation.

I'd much rather fly with him then you Do you guys just like killing people dreams or somthing? Why don't you just encouge us kids? Remember that's all we are so don't except us to know every thing about a business we won't be in for another 5 years.