Two questions on holds

[WabiSabi]

Maybe I am having a total brain dump but isn't teardrop the answer for both those holds?

The second one is actually borderline between teardrop and direct. Personally, I would do the teardrop.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

**correction**

OKAY WAIT. I just realized something.

My MISTAKE. Apologies.


1) Teardrop

2) Teardrop (NOT direct as previously stated)

3) I misread the headings. I was having a bad day. sorry for the harsh comment.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

yes, my foot is in the mouth.

 

[siucavflight]

Ha, just funny that you are a professional pilot and cat figure out a hold entry!
But yes you are correct
Teardrop
Direct

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Ha, just funny that you are a professional pilot and cat figure out a hold entry!
But yes you are correct
Teardrop
Direct

That's actually not correct.

It's actually:
1) Teardrop
2) Teardrop


I initally misread his question and answered incorrectly too. He uses a heading in the first example and then an inbound radial in the second. This threw me off and changes the answer. Maybe the OP himself is confused. If you are on a *heading* of 022 - the answer for the second question would be DIRECT. But the second question is not a heading but rather the inbound radial of 022 which (assuming no wind) would be a 202 heading, making it a TEARDROP entry.

 

[cr7driver]

What does it matter, really?? Stay on the protected side of the hold. Thats all the FEDS say anyway.

 

[avbug]

True enough. Look at the quickest, easiest way (which is why drawing it helps), and enter. You don't need to split degrees to do that. Once you enter, you've got a minute to figure out how to get turned around which is why turning the shortest way to the outbound leg and then timing a minute gets you into the hold the fastest and the easiest. After that, you need to make one more turn in a minute (or minute and a half, as the case may be)...this gives you the time to figure the rest out. Easy. Do whatever hold entry works best for you. It just doesn't matter.

 

[WabiSabi]

True enough. Look at the quickest, easiest way (which is why drawing it helps), and enter. You don't need to split degrees to do that. Once you enter, you've got a minute to figure out how to get turned around which is why turning the shortest way to the outbound leg and then timing a minute gets you into the hold the fastest and the easiest. After that, you need to make one more turn in a minute (or minute and a half, as the case may be)...this gives you the time to figure the rest out. Easy. Do whatever hold entry works best for you. It just doesn't matter.

Agreed. However, some examiners or check airman are sticklers to the AIM recommendations to varying degrees. badump bump!:laugh: (I swear the pun was not my original intent! it just happened)

 

[time builder]

Agreed. However, some examiners or check airman are sticklers to the AIM recommendations to varying degrees. badump bump!:laugh: (I swear the pun was not my original intent! it just happened)

So true, its the examiners and check airmen you have to please most, ATC could care less as long as you stay on the safe side and within the confines of a hold. Heck, if I'm 5 degrees on the parallel side (as opposed to the teardrop) I'll still go teardrop, it's just easier.

Or, as one of my classmates said, any entry can be a direct entry depending on the bank angle you're willing to use.

 

[avbug]

I don't believe I've ever had a check airman question my call on a hold. I might say "it's a parallel, but I don't like parallels, and am flying a teardrop," just to verbalize it. Or I might just say "we'll do a teardrop." Take charge as PIC and don't say "I think this one looks okay. Is that right?" I think the check airman is far more concerned with the safety of the operation than splitting a degree.

If the check airman is harping over a split degree in which entryis used, then his or her focus is all wrong, and I tend to think the applicant is being a little too submissive. Take charge, tell them what you intend to do. Chances are if you're decisive in your action and are clearly confident and able to do so, you won't be questioned if it's done safely and professionally.

The person you really want to bounce it off is the person in the other seat. If the check airman is behind you and you've got a right seater or left seater accompanying your checkride then decide on your hold and then show it to the FO or Captain...ask them if they agree. I've been straightened out before by a sharp eyed cohort; that's CRM.