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Twenty-year-old FO!

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It's okay to have these "I love to fly-I would do this for free" whack jobs flying around...just make sure they are hidden away and not on the negotiating committee when it's time to talk about money.

--and let's be honest with ourselves...more pilots have been screwed by other pilots than by any CEO, past or present.

Not only is that true, but I think it is also true that the industry would hire 18 year olds if they could. They younger you can get em', generally- again generally- the more inclined one is to whore oneself out to:

(1) Wear a Uniform
(2) Look Cool
(3) Impress the ladies
(4) oh, and fly an airplane

Airplanes have gone the way of fast food, virtually anyone can make a Mchamburger without any training, and it is obvious to me having just finished 3 years at a regional, that is the theory behind new aircraft developement. Make it as simple as possible to hire as wide a range (read lower qualifications to keep salary demands at a minimum) feasible and to keep training costs at a minimum.

How many people out there know virtually nothing about the systems of the aircraft they fly or even basic airmanship techniques to determine VDP's or calculate a crossing restriction mentally? I was shocked at the number of incidents at my interim regional employer these past 3 years at the number of incidents of high altitude stalls with 'senior' flight crews at the controls. A crew literally flew a 70 seater at FL350 at 170Knots!!!

Cockpits have turned into a collection of beeping boxes much like a McDonalds kitchen is a collection of beeping timers telling the mindless employee when to flip a burger or pull the fries out of the hot oil. If the timer doesn't go off, the burger gets burned. There are way to many of us who would bust a restriction if a box failed; or would simply drop down to the altitude restriction immediately, burning gas and making for a bumpy and perhaps less safe ride. Of course the new technology is wonderful for safety as statistics show, but if the basic airmanship isn't there to back it up the makings of a disaster are in place. (ie Pinnacle Airlines ferry flight last year and Comair in LEX, another 'senior' crew).

When airlines can hire kids essentially just out of high school, it is not a good thing. The demands for entry into the profession need to be re-introduced. I haven't had any legitimate pre-employment apptitude/psych evaluation since that required for my employment at TWA. This sort of thing would diminish the possiblity of getting those not fit for the job in the cockpit -like my most recent newhire sim partner- who literally could not add two numbers together and crashed the airplane on take-off in a CPT because the flight director wasn't turned on. He just rolled the airplane over. Mind you, this guy wasn't 20 years old, he was a former regional captain who by virtue of being in the industry long enough, got on with a major. Poor apptitude passed on from one employer to the next.

To hire on with our present carrier, no testing or psych evaluation, only testing ones ability to fly a canned sim profile readily available on the internet and checking how well you interview. We shouldn't be giving these jobs away. Whether regional or major- both equally important and significant. Regional flying by far requiring the highest standards due to its high level of demands flying into smaller airports with less amenities to help the crew with their mission. These jobs are being doled out not on safety philosophys but on the search for cheap,replenishable labor-like McDonalds.

Hiring 20 year olds is not the way to curb this trend.
 
....

Lets get to the root here, people are only making a big deal of this because this guy got a shot/opportunity that they didnt have at that age, and that angers them.

"I did it this way, so by god, thats how everyone else must do it too!"
 
Not only is that true, but I think it is also true that the industry would hire 18 year olds if they could. They younger you can get em', generally- again generally- the more inclined one is to whore oneself out to:

(1) Wear a Uniform
(2) Look Cool
(3) Impress the ladies
(4) oh, and fly an airplane

Airplanes have gone the way of fast food, virtually anyone can make a Mchamburger without any training, and it is obvious to me having just finished 3 years at a regional, that is the theory behind new aircraft developement. Make it as simple as possible to hire as wide a range (read lower qualifications to keep salary demands at a minimum) feasible and to keep training costs at a minimum.

How many people out there know virtually nothing about the systems of the aircraft they fly or even basic airmanship techniques to determine VDP's or calculate a crossing restriction mentally? I was shocked at the number of incidents at my interim regional employer these past 3 years at the number of incidents of high altitude stalls with 'senior' flight crews at the controls. A crew literally flew a 70 seater at FL350 at 170Knots!!!

Cockpits have turned into a collection of beeping boxes much like a McDonalds kitchen is a collection of beeping timers telling the mindless employee when to flip a burger or pull the fries out of the hot oil. If the timer doesn't go off, the burger gets burned. There are way to many of us who would bust a restriction if a box failed; or would simply drop down to the altitude restriction immediately, burning gas and making for a bumpy and perhaps less safe ride. Of course the new technology is wonderful for safety as statistics show, but if the basic airmanship isn't there to back it up the makings of a disaster are in place. (ie Pinnacle Airlines ferry flight last year and Comair in LEX, another 'senior' crew).

When airlines can hire kids essentially just out of high school, it is not a good thing. The demands for entry into the profession need to be re-introduced. I haven't had any legitimate pre-employment apptitude/psych evaluation since that required for my employment at TWA. This sort of thing would diminish the possiblity of getting those not fit for the job in the cockpit -like my most recent newhire sim partner- who literally could not add two numbers together and crashed the airplane on take-off in a CPT because the flight director wasn't turned on. He just rolled the airplane over. Mind you, this guy wasn't 20 years old, he was a former regional captain who by virtue of being in the industry long enough, got on with a major. Poor apptitude passed on from one employer to the next.

To hire on with our present carrier, no testing or psych evaluation, only testing ones ability to fly a canned sim profile readily available on the internet and checking how well you interview. We shouldn't be giving these jobs away. Whether regional or major- both equally important and significant. Regional flying by far requiring the highest standards due to its high level of demands flying into smaller airports with less amenities to help the crew with their mission. These jobs are being doled out not on safety philosophys but on the search for cheap,replenishable labor-like McDonalds.

Hiring 20 year olds is not the way to curb this trend.



Hit the nail on the mo' fo' head.
 
So....the Age 60 rule is blatant discrimination but suggesting 20 year old pilots are bad for the industry and are unsafe is acceptable?

WTFO?
 
I know for a fact Northwest hired 18 year olds a long tme ago (40 years). Those old planes are a hell of a lot harder to fly than a CRJ/ERJ too.
 
Love of flying is what ruined this industry in the first place.

Very well put. There's always someone willing to get paid less just for the experience.

Can you imagine the bitterness this punk will be dragging around by the time he's 30??? hehehehehehe...

BTW, I knew ALPA was fracked up but they don't even seem to know who the oldest retired Alpa member is. I know one that is 83 that sat on his airlines Safety and Negotiating comittees.

Geeze...
 
I guess we don't have to pay that much in "dues" anymore
 
dude can't even drink on the overnights!

If he didn't go to college, then thats even worse than the worthless aviation degree a lot of us got. You gotta have something to fall back on in this industry.
 
Its not the age that matters.....

Its this:
How many people out there know virtually nothing about the systems of the aircraft they fly or even basic airmanship techniques to determine VDP's or calculate a crossing restriction mentally? I was shocked at the number of incidents at my interim regional employer these past 3 years at the number of incidents of high altitude stalls with 'senior' flight crews at the controls. A crew literally flew a 70 seater at FL350 at 170Knots!!!

Cockpits have turned into a collection of beeping boxes much like a McDonalds kitchen is a collection of beeping timers telling the mindless employee when to flip a burger or pull the fries out of the hot oil. If the timer doesn't go off, the burger gets burned. There are way to many of us who would bust a restriction if a box failed; or would simply drop down to the altitude restriction immediately, burning gas and making for a bumpy and perhaps less safe ride. Of course the new technology is wonderful for safety as statistics show, but if the basic airmanship isn't there to back it up the makings of a disaster are in place. (ie Pinnacle Airlines ferry flight last year and Comair in LEX, another 'senior' crew).

And this:

The demands for entry into the profession need to be re-introduced. I haven't had any legitimate pre-employment apptitude/psych evaluation since that required for my employment at TWA. This sort of thing would diminish the possiblity of getting those not fit for the job in the cockpit -like my most recent newhire sim partner- who literally could not add two numbers together and crashed the airplane on take-off in a CPT because the flight director wasn't turned on. He just rolled the airplane over. Mind you, this guy wasn't 20 years old, he was a former regional captain who by virtue of being in the industry long enough, got on with a major. Poor apptitude passed on from one employer to the next.

Well said.
 
If we "pilots" really loved the industry and flying itself, why do we bash ourselves and our own profession?

1. We bash each other all the time over stupid ********************. Stop it.

2. We bash each other for wearing our uniforms. Our uniforms should be worn properly. And, we should be proud to wear them. It shows our dedication to our career and our high level of professionalism.

3. We bash each other for talking about airplanes. It is considered "not cool". Don't you think that if you talked about airplanes a little more, you might know something about them?

4. We consider it "uncool" to be immersed in an aviation education such as attending ERAU or DCA. We preach "get a degree outside of aviation". That, to me, is not a pure devotion to the education required to professionally pilot an aircraft. I learn more and more important stuff every class I take at ERAU. For example: human factors, calc, and physics.

Think about it.
 
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