Twenty-year-old FO!

[CASHMAN797]

Airlines have hired pilots in their early twenties for years. I can think of a couple at Eastern and Piedmont (the old piedmont) back in the 70s/80s hired at 22-25yrs.

 

[JohnnyP]

.....

It's more of his judgement and decision making skills that concerns me.

Ok, I may be an idiot here, but how does the military provide the judgement and decision making skills when the pilots only have 500TT? Just because you're supposed to be the "cream of the crop" doesnt mean your going to hold together when the situation starts to fall apart. I used to figure that judgement and decision making came from years of experience? Have I been wrong all this time?

 

[JohnnyP]

Airlines have hired pilots in their early twenties for years. I can think of a couple at Eastern and Piedmont (the old piedmont) back in the 70s/80s hired at 22-25yrs.

And now those guys hired at 22 years old and no experience are your 747 captains taking you to japan. You trust them, dont you? Remember, before all their hair turned gray like that, they were just "punks" with no experience in the right seat of a CV880 or whatever the case may have been. Worked out pretty well, wouldnt you say?

You get put in an RJ at 1500 hrs, you will learn, just like everyone else did. These things arent falling out of the sky everyday, turbines are reliable, and captains dont become incapacitated on a daily basis (people seem to like to use that excuse about the captain having a heart attack and the FO having to save the day on some single engine approach to min's. Im sure it has happened and will happen again, but how common is that guys? Lets be realistic here). People arent worried about the safety issue, but the fact that someone got a chance at an earlier time in their carrier than they did and they resent them for it.

 

[BCpilot81]

I wish the kid the best, and it is an awesome feet. However, I took my CFI checkride where he trained, by Jack Taylor, Judging by the way that I fly, standards are about 2% performance and 98% money. But come to think of it, so is the airline industry!!

 

[EMB170Pilot]

http://www.coloradoan.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060719/BUSINESS/607190328/1046

I hope the industry doesn't kill the love of flying this kid evidently has.

WELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

LADIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE FREAKIN DAH!!

WE GOT OURSELVES A PILOT OVER HERE!

Hey dad I cant see so good is that Chuck Yeager over there?

Uhhh Chris we actually encouraged Brian to be a pilot.

Dad I wish you could just shut your big

YAAAPPPPPPPPPPER!!!

Seriously, Congrats to the kid and best of luck!

 

[Fins Up]

WELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

LADIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE FREAKIN DAH!!

WE GOT OURSELVES A PILOT OVER HERE!

Hey dad I cant see so good is that Chuck Yeager over there?

Uhhh Chris we actually encouraged Brian to be a pilot.

Dad I wish you could just shut your big

YAAAPPPPPPPPPPER!!!

hahahahaha. That's funny.

 

[Captainzero1]

Why can't you regional guys pay to have your uniforms tailored. The kid looks like a dork in that off the rack polyester suit.

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

good for him but I don't see the "big deal factor"

the airplane don't know how old you are. 20 year old flying a turboprop (as copilot)?

that "wow" factor should be tempered with 25 year olds flying Mach 2 with lethal weapons strapped to the wings, single pilot in fighters.

put the two together and its no big deal

I certainly agree, however it's the 18-23 year olds that were flying B-17's etal during WW2 that truly deserve the "wow" factor!

 

[Squanto]

What is the average number of hours of a newhire F.O at a regional? 1400 hours this guy has? I'll take the bus......

 

[CesnaCaptn]

Dude, how'd you find this thread?

 

[Kugelblitz]

Yaaa, umm I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there. Greedy business people ruined this industy. The love of flight is what keeps this biz going.

Call me a bast*rd, but hiring too many immature people isn't doing this industry any favors either. I don't know anything about this kid, and I do mean kid (he just got his friggin drivers license), but there are some real issues with maturity not being addressed.

A recent crash of a ferry flight CRJ revealed on the CVR a crew unable to discuss the events unfolding without sounding like a South Park episode (not that there is anything wrong with South Park). There are way to many people pre-occuppied with the wrong aspects of being a pilot (ie getting laid) and not flying the airplane. Granted, there are plenty of us old farts with issues, but the rate with which we are maturing seems to be slowing and the notion of putting a very young FO in the cockpit with another young (less than ,say, 30) captain can be a recipe for disaster.

 

[Metro752]

What is the average number of hours of a newhire F.O at a regional? 1400 hours this guy has? I'll take the bus......

around 500-600 for wonderchildren

 

[CubanSmoker]

Why won't this thread DIE!?!?!?!?

 

[igneousy2]

Love of flying is what ruined this industry in the first place.

It's okay to have these "I love to fly-I would do this for free" whack jobs flying around...just make sure they are hidden away and not on the negotiating committee when it's time to talk about money.

--and let's be honest with ourselves...more pilots have been screwed by other pilots than by any CEO, past or present.

 

[Kaman]

I also fail to see the big deal over the guy's age being significant. My new-hire class at CJC a couple of years ago had not one, but TWO guys that were 20. Both have since moved on to hopefully bigger paychecks and better work rules.
In my mind it is far more significant that the average age of the people on the deck of an aircraft carrier average 19, and in WWII the number of 20 year olds with a commission was in the thousands. Not to diminsh the kids accomplishment, but all he has done is what many other people have done over the years.

 

[Kugelblitz]

It's okay to have these "I love to fly-I would do this for free" whack jobs flying around...just make sure they are hidden away and not on the negotiating committee when it's time to talk about money.

--and let's be honest with ourselves...more pilots have been screwed by other pilots than by any CEO, past or present.

Not only is that true, but I think it is also true that the industry would hire 18 year olds if they could. They younger you can get em', generally- again generally- the more inclined one is to whore oneself out to:

(1) Wear a Uniform
(2) Look Cool
(3) Impress the ladies
(4) oh, and fly an airplane

Airplanes have gone the way of fast food, virtually anyone can make a Mchamburger without any training, and it is obvious to me having just finished 3 years at a regional, that is the theory behind new aircraft developement. Make it as simple as possible to hire as wide a range (read lower qualifications to keep salary demands at a minimum) feasible and to keep training costs at a minimum.

How many people out there know virtually nothing about the systems of the aircraft they fly or even basic airmanship techniques to determine VDP's or calculate a crossing restriction mentally? I was shocked at the number of incidents at my interim regional employer these past 3 years at the number of incidents of high altitude stalls with 'senior' flight crews at the controls. A crew literally flew a 70 seater at FL350 at 170Knots!!!

Cockpits have turned into a collection of beeping boxes much like a McDonalds kitchen is a collection of beeping timers telling the mindless employee when to flip a burger or pull the fries out of the hot oil. If the timer doesn't go off, the burger gets burned. There are way to many of us who would bust a restriction if a box failed; or would simply drop down to the altitude restriction immediately, burning gas and making for a bumpy and perhaps less safe ride. Of course the new technology is wonderful for safety as statistics show, but if the basic airmanship isn't there to back it up the makings of a disaster are in place. (ie Pinnacle Airlines ferry flight last year and Comair in LEX, another 'senior' crew).

When airlines can hire kids essentially just out of high school, it is not a good thing. The demands for entry into the profession need to be re-introduced. I haven't had any legitimate pre-employment apptitude/psych evaluation since that required for my employment at TWA. This sort of thing would diminish the possiblity of getting those not fit for the job in the cockpit -like my most recent newhire sim partner- who literally could not add two numbers together and crashed the airplane on take-off in a CPT because the flight director wasn't turned on. He just rolled the airplane over. Mind you, this guy wasn't 20 years old, he was a former regional captain who by virtue of being in the industry long enough, got on with a major. Poor apptitude passed on from one employer to the next.

To hire on with our present carrier, no testing or psych evaluation, only testing ones ability to fly a canned sim profile readily available on the internet and checking how well you interview. We shouldn't be giving these jobs away. Whether regional or major- both equally important and significant. Regional flying by far requiring the highest standards due to its high level of demands flying into smaller airports with less amenities to help the crew with their mission. These jobs are being doled out not on safety philosophys but on the search for cheap,replenishable labor-like McDonalds.

Hiring 20 year olds is not the way to curb this trend.

 

[JohnnyP]

....

Lets get to the root here, people are only making a big deal of this because this guy got a shot/opportunity that they didnt have at that age, and that angers them.

"I did it this way, so by god, thats how everyone else must do it too!"

 

[jacksjj]

Not only is that true, but I think it is also true that the industry would hire 18 year olds if they could. They younger you can get em', generally- again generally- the more inclined one is to whore oneself out to:

(1) Wear a Uniform
(2) Look Cool
(3) Impress the ladies
(4) oh, and fly an airplane

Airplanes have gone the way of fast food, virtually anyone can make a Mchamburger without any training, and it is obvious to me having just finished 3 years at a regional, that is the theory behind new aircraft developement. Make it as simple as possible to hire as wide a range (read lower qualifications to keep salary demands at a minimum) feasible and to keep training costs at a minimum.

How many people out there know virtually nothing about the systems of the aircraft they fly or even basic airmanship techniques to determine VDP's or calculate a crossing restriction mentally? I was shocked at the number of incidents at my interim regional employer these past 3 years at the number of incidents of high altitude stalls with 'senior' flight crews at the controls. A crew literally flew a 70 seater at FL350 at 170Knots!!!

Cockpits have turned into a collection of beeping boxes much like a McDonalds kitchen is a collection of beeping timers telling the mindless employee when to flip a burger or pull the fries out of the hot oil. If the timer doesn't go off, the burger gets burned. There are way to many of us who would bust a restriction if a box failed; or would simply drop down to the altitude restriction immediately, burning gas and making for a bumpy and perhaps less safe ride. Of course the new technology is wonderful for safety as statistics show, but if the basic airmanship isn't there to back it up the makings of a disaster are in place. (ie Pinnacle Airlines ferry flight last year and Comair in LEX, another 'senior' crew).

When airlines can hire kids essentially just out of high school, it is not a good thing. The demands for entry into the profession need to be re-introduced. I haven't had any legitimate pre-employment apptitude/psych evaluation since that required for my employment at TWA. This sort of thing would diminish the possiblity of getting those not fit for the job in the cockpit -like my most recent newhire sim partner- who literally could not add two numbers together and crashed the airplane on take-off in a CPT because the flight director wasn't turned on. He just rolled the airplane over. Mind you, this guy wasn't 20 years old, he was a former regional captain who by virtue of being in the industry long enough, got on with a major. Poor apptitude passed on from one employer to the next.

To hire on with our present carrier, no testing or psych evaluation, only testing ones ability to fly a canned sim profile readily available on the internet and checking how well you interview. We shouldn't be giving these jobs away. Whether regional or major- both equally important and significant. Regional flying by far requiring the highest standards due to its high level of demands flying into smaller airports with less amenities to help the crew with their mission. These jobs are being doled out not on safety philosophys but on the search for cheap,replenishable labor-like McDonalds.

Hiring 20 year olds is not the way to curb this trend.

Hit the nail on the mo' fo' head.

 

[BoilerUP]

So....the Age 60 rule is blatant discrimination but suggesting 20 year old pilots are bad for the industry and are unsafe is acceptable?

WTFO?

 

[gnx99]

I know for a fact Northwest hired 18 year olds a long tme ago (40 years). Those old planes are a hell of a lot harder to fly than a CRJ/ERJ too.