Twa 800

[Whale Pilot]

ATRDRIVER,

I used a poor choice of words. Boeing issued information asking operators to not run the center tanks dry and to keep a certain amount of Jet-A in them. I never said anything about the FAA but since I stated AD I guess thats what was implied. Sorry for the confusion.

Perhaps your apologies should be directed toward me. Are you typed on the 747?

 

[dash8driver]

wasnt this flight going to paris?

i dont know anything about the fuel loads for this route or anything. but what is the normal fuel load for this trip? do the rest of the tanks have enough capacity that the center tank can be empty for nyc-paris?

 

[Typhoon1244]

[D]o the rest of the tanks have enough capacity that the center tank can be empty for [JFK]-[P]aris?

Uh...what are you saying? Are you suggesting that maybe the crew didn't know it was empty?

I didn't work for TWA, and I don't know what their procedures were like, but I imagine they probably wouldn't have taken off if they didn't have enough fuel to get to their destination.

 

[witchdoctor]

Whale you are the only one that should be issuing apologies, you dumb a$$.

 

[dash8driver]

Uh...what are you saying? Are you suggesting that maybe the crew didn't know it was empty?

I didn't work for TWA, and I don't know what their procedures were like, but I imagine they probably wouldn't have taken off if they didn't have enough fuel to get to their destination.

no, i'm saying the center tank was actually full. they just said it was empty to corroborate the fuel pump explosion so they wouldnt have to admit that the aliens did it after they got pissed for bush throwing up their martian sushi.

dont try to read too much into it, you'll hurt yourself. i'm just wondering what the fuel requirements and tank capacity from nyc to paris is.

if they did take off without enough fuel, its not like it would have been the first time something like that happened or something similar was overlooked. i mean who would ever think that you could miss putting the flaps down before you're going to take off? but thats not what i'm getting at....relax.

its a simple question..dont make it complicated

 

[Vik]

You freak'n complicator you!!!

no, i'm saying the center tank was actually full. they just said it was empty to corroborate the fuel pump explosion so they wouldnt have to admit that the aliens did it after they got pissed for bush throwing up their martian sushi.

dont try to read too much into it, you'll hurt yourself. i'm just wondering what the fuel requirements and tank capacity from nyc to paris is.

if they did take off without enough fuel, its not like it would have been the first time something like that happened or something similar was overlooked. i mean who would ever think that you could miss putting the flaps down before you're going to take off? but thats not what i'm getting at....relax.

its a simple question..dont make it complicated

 

[A Squared]

no, i'm saying the center tank was actually full. they just said it was empty to corroborate the fuel pump explosion so they wouldnt have to admit that the aliens did it after they got pissed for bush throwing up their martian sushi.

dont try to read too much into it, you'll hurt yourself. i'm just wondering what the fuel requirements and tank capacity from nyc to paris is.

if they did take off without enough fuel, its not like it would have been the first time something like that happened or something similar was overlooked. i mean who would ever think that you could miss putting the flaps down before you're going to take off? but thats not what i'm getting at....relax.

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing myself, everything (in the official explanation) seems to hinge on that center tank being empty. Now like Dash8 I'm ignorant of 747 fuel capacities, burns and ranges, but just off the top of my head, it would seem like a 747 which had very recently departed on a trans-atlantic flight wouldn't have a major tank empty, but then maybe it would. Anyone with actual operational knowledge of 747's have any light to shed?

 

[Swede]

Whale you are the only one that should be issuing apologies, you dumb a$$.

Be gentle. He's new and very proud of his 747 type rating.

 

[profile]

Been a while, but, yes, the flight is not that long so center tank would be empty. Heck, might be empty on the MD11 on that route, depending on winds and what alternate you have filed.

 

[witchdoctor]

Correction

Sigh....
Everyone knows that "y'all" is singular, while "y'alls" is plural.

Actually, All ya'll is plural. Don't you no nothun?

 

[atrdriver]

As far as fuel capacity, I believe that that ship had a total fuel capacity of 335,000 lbs.

 

[Dangerkitty]

Perhaps your apologies should be directed toward me. Are you typed on the 747?

Why would I offer an a$$hole like you an apology? Your first post refers to F/O Mullin as a "God Pilot" (The FO of the AA A-300 Crash in JFK for you non AA'ers out there) You are totally insensitive and a complete jerk. 99.9% of the TWA pilots I have met have been the utmost professionals. You sir are not among them.

Furthermore, why should I apologize to someone who has no clue what they are talking about?

Finally, you dont have to be typed in a 747 to know what can happen and what you are spewing is total BS.

 

[SiuDude]

Don't you no nothun?

No?..........Yes?

 

[fastandlow]

.....very proud of his 747 type rating.

I would be! But I might get a heavy attitude too...

 

[Typhoon1244]

Do you folks mind if I try to swing us back onto the road here?

The NTSB's report details an experiment they performed with a scale model of the 747's CWT to investigate the nature of fuel vapors. When they heated the Jet-A to the vapor point and tried to ignite it, nothing happened. They eventually had to add propane and hydrogen to get a reaction, because the kerosene fumes would do nothing more than burn off and then self-extinguish.

You have to realize that when fuel vapors burn, it is a low velocity explosion. It's more of a "whump" that may deform or even rupture the tank, but can't do the kind of damage that was observed on the TWA 800 airframe. Much of the physical evidence, radar data, and eyewitness accounts, is indicitive of a high velocity explosion. That cannot be caused by fuel vapors of any kind-only high explosives.

I read this too, and I find it very difficult to ignore.

It's amazing to me that these two opposing theories (accident vs. sabotage) are equally compelling.

Maybe they're both right: maybe Ahmed and Fadi launched a missile from their boat just as 800's center tank blew up...