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TSA Furloughs 20!

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UEJ500 said:
TSA pilots are being pressured into not picking up open time, while the whole industry knows we are below average pay already. I cannot believe the audacity of the union blowhards to tell me that I should not try to make extra money!!

I believe you have it backwards, kinda seflish for the union to prey upon guys who might NEED the extra money and use scare tactics like this to keep guys from doing it. Not all of us can get fired and still earn a living for over a year.

I believe it was made clear that the union could get in hot water if the company filed a complaint.


I don't think Dario or any other union officials are on here telling you to not pick up open time. From what i see, its line pilots asking you to think about the guys losing their jobs. How would you like it if you were the person furloughed? Its an ethical thing...not a money thing. Be better than mgmt.
And stop trying to blame the union because people jumped on your back....IT IS NOT THE UNION TELLING YOU THIS!!!
 
cheeeese said:
From what i see, its line pilots asking you to think about the guys losing their jobs. How would you like it if you were the person furloughed? Its an ethical thing...not a money thing. Be better than mgmt.
And stop trying to blame the union because people jumped on your back....IT IS NOT THE UNION TELLING YOU THIS!!!

What is Unethical about working overtime for some extra pay, I see no comparison between the guys on the street and supporting my family. Life is hard, and I feel for them but they will get thru it. In fact I would do anything for any of them while they are furloughed.



This is totally not the issue.
 
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Having been furloughed from TSA after 9/11, I can say that I WILL NEVER pick up open time as long as anyone is on furlough. It is ethically and morally wrong. Anyone that says otherwise is an idiot or has not yet been furloughed. The union would agree, but cannot because of fears about illegal job actions.

I've spent the better part of five years at this company on reserve as an FO and CA. I think that I've had 2 hard lines in those years. I know what it's like to scrape by and make barely enough to live on. That still does not make me want to pick up open time. We spend enough time eating our young in this industry. If for no reason other than moral support, we should all cease picking up open time. It's vitally important for us to send a message to our furloughed brothers and sisters saying that we support them and have not forgotten them.

Also, I personally know of at least one person that requested a voluntary furlough, but was denied. That tells you everything that you need to know about the scum bags in management.
 
cheeeese said:
I don't think Dario or any other union officials are on here telling you to not pick up open time. From what i see, its line pilots asking you to think about the guys losing their jobs. How would you like it if you were the person furloughed? Its an ethical thing...not a money thing. Be better than mgmt.
And stop trying to blame the union because people jumped on your back....IT IS NOT THE UNION TELLING YOU THIS!!!

There are things that nobody should have to be told, and this is one of them.
 
Picking up open time is not going to bring your furloughs back any faster. In fact, it might prohibit your company from gaining more flying, which would prolong the furloughs. Pilots need to understand that Management is there for a good reason: to do what is right for the Company so that all of us have a better opportunity to succeed. There is a bigger picture here than just some temporary layoffs.
 
Theres no way its morally wrong. If I was on furlough I would want someone to be able to take advantage of whatever they can. The open time situation does not affect the staffing level. They will get it covered. Instead of them giving it a reserve its your right to pick it up. Hell maybe get a little extra for it. You gotta do what you gotta do. Don't be intimidated by the anger mongers. Whats ethically wrong is depriving the lady of a nice well deserved vacation by getting some extra $$$. Also you could try to get lots of hours and time out at the end of the year. Ive slowed down a bit however I just may still pull it off.
 
Agreed, you have a moral obligation to the Company to work as much as you can. The more flights that are covered, the better off everybody is. Get your lady some nice bling!
 
EMB Skillz said:
Agreed, you have a moral obligation to the Company to work as much as you can. The more flights that are covered, the better off everybody is. Get your lady some nice bling!

You are either management or the biggest dumbass in the pilot industry.
 
And you are another disillusioned pilot who cannot accept reality. It is easy for the fat captains to sit back and preach, but you can't tell a low-paid FO to not pick up open time to pay the rent. Strike? That's another story. But up until that point, you should fly as much as you want. Don't drink the kool-aid and get to thinking that you can "force" management to recall, it won't work.
 
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EMB Skillz said:
And you are another disillusioned pilot who cannot accept reality. It is easy for the fat captains to sit back and preach, but you can't tell a low-paid FO to not pick up open time to pay the rent. Strike? That's another story. But up until that point, you should fly as much as you want. Don't drink the kool-aid and get to thinking that you can "force" management to recall, it won't work.

Not a fat Captain. used to be but my company went out of business, due to fat management that didn't give a @#&t about me but got their golden parachute. I am now a lowly FO who still does not think like you and has a lot of bills and a family. if it wasn't for thinking like you we would all have a lot more money and better contracts.
 
EMB Skillz said:
Agreed, you have a moral obligation to the Company to work as much as you can. The more flights that are covered, the better off everybody is. Get your lady some nice bling!

I have a moral obligation to show up, do my job in a professional manner, and fly as much as I am scheduled to or that I want to/try to. None of us are under any obligation to fly as much as we can.

And whoever said we shouldn't bother giving two weeks notice at TSA, we get a bonus (depending on how many times we've called in sick. No sick calls=bigger bonus) when we leave only if we give two weeks notice. It's probably the only reason anyone gives it.
 
flyer172r said:
I have a moral obligation to show up, do my job in a professional manner, and fly as much as I am scheduled to or that I want to/try to. None of us are under any obligation to fly as much as we can.

And whoever said we shouldn't bother giving two weeks notice at TSA, we get a bonus (depending on how many times we've called in sick. No sick calls=bigger bonus) when we leave only if we give two weeks notice. It's probably the only reason anyone gives it.

Just like the union has a moral obligation not to interfere with us picking up open time when we please and to stop any harassment that comes from picking that open time up. It says right in the contract that we are allowed to pick up open time, sometimes even for premo pay.
 
So, let me get this straight...people complain when compainies need pay cuts, but the UNIONS try to make you take a pay cut by not picking up open time......that doesn't seem like it is in anybody's best interest since management will not recall any sooner and may have to reduce flying and increase furloughs.
 
flyer172r said:
I have a moral obligation to show up, do my job in a professional manner, and fly as much as I am scheduled to or that I want to/try to. None of us are under any obligation to fly as much as we can.

And whoever said we shouldn't bother giving two weeks notice at TSA, we get a bonus (depending on how many times we've called in sick. No sick calls=bigger bonus) when we leave only if we give two weeks notice. It's probably the only reason anyone gives it.

And if you are a TSA pilot, you also have a "moral obligation" to take a crap. How in the Holy H*ll you TSA scum bags could work for what you do is beyond me.

Give us one good reason you TSA "Ho's" are better than GJ "professionals".
You grew up stealin'. You learned it from your uncle "Hu".

What a bunch of.....self serving @#$^^%$$#@!
 
UEJ500 said:
What is Unethical about working overtime for some extra pay, I see no comparison between the guys on the street and supporting my family. Life is hard, and I feel for them but they will get thru it. In fact I would do anything for any of them while they are furloughed.



This is totally not the issue.

Try to live with a budget. You know what your hourly rate is, plan accordingly.

Why did TSA lay off 20 pilots?, cause they felt there wasn't enough flying for those folks. One way to help those on furlough get back quicker is to NOT pick up open time, unless a line holder is trying to drop a trip. If the open time is not picked up, it get assigned to reserves. Eventually reserves get used and the company needs more bodies. Welcome back furloughees. :)

If you really will do "anything" to help those on furlough, you won't fly 95 hours a month unless it is assigned to you.


Disclaimer: the above post is for informational purposes only. Your mileage may vary.
 
EMB Skillz said:
So, let me get this straight...people complain when compainies need pay cuts, but the UNIONS try to make you take a pay cut by not picking up open time......that doesn't seem like it is in anybody's best interest since management will not recall any sooner and may have to reduce flying and increase furloughs.

No union official is on here trying to make it an official policy not to pick up open time, it's just some people saying that not picking it up is a good way to show support for the guys on furlough.

Pick up all the drop requests you want, it'll make you, your lady, and another pilot happy.
 
20 furloughs? That's ridiculous.

It sucks being a pawn in this chess game we call "Airline"

Why the need to furlough? Why not offer voluntary furloughs and/or COLA?

Anyway best of luck to you all, things happen for a reason.
 
UEJ500 said:
D'Angelo, thanks for the kind words because I get none from these guys. I'm not sure why they don't get it.

TSA pilots are being pressured into not picking up open time, while the whole industry knows we are below average pay already. I cannot believe the audacity of the union blowhards to tell me that I should not try to make extra money!!

I believe you have it backwards, kinda seflish for the union to prey upon guys who might NEED the extra money and use scare tactics like this to keep guys from doing it. Not all of us can get fired and still earn a living for over a year.

I believe it was made clear that the union could get in hot water if the company filed a complaint.

And then you go and throw the "you should go to g0jet" crap out there, don't you think I would have if I wanted to? Shut your pie hole and leave guys alone. 75% of the TSA pilots listened to the union crap when we voted on this issue in the first place, I'm sure the vast majority of the ones who "voted it down" and followed the indirection of the MEC are feeling like they should have voted the other way now. All this stuff about not picking up open time isn't even being discussed by the union, which havent' updated the VARS since the 1st of the month. Do you think they are as dumb as you are? NO WAY would they support this? And I'll do whatever I want to EARN MONEY FOR MY FAMILY within the bounds of my great ALPA CONTRACT which I am greatfull for.

BAD FORM? Isn't it bad form to neglect your family because some retard on fi.com warns you not to?

Any more great leadership ideas for all of us mindless followers?


Hey jacka$$, What about the guys on furlough trying to feed their family? Fu@k their families right? Just as long as you get yours right!
 
Me?? Pressure????

Dudes.....

I do not care what you do. I'm not a union official, just another FO. Its a personal decision and this is America. For the record, I would adversely respond to any pressure applied to me to do anything. I make my own decisions and I do not take polls to decide what is right. Do what you think is right. I'm just giving you an opposing opinion. I really don't give a rip about what you do. Fly a hundred hours a month an time out on October for all I care. That'll make them need people later this year too. For those who would accuse me of not being a good worker, then you have no idea about what you are saying. I have never looked in open time, but have, when asked to take one for the team, flown an extra turn.

Lighten up folks..
 
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Capn Lucky said:
......... but have, when asked to (demonstrate my acceptance of the way my fellow pilots and I are treated), flown an extra turn.

Lighten up folks..


No consequences, no change.
 
regionaltard said:
No consequences, no change.

Im not against anyone having a negative opinion of us who chose to pick up open time. What I am against is using under-handed tactics to try and force your will on someone else. Thats typical union thug style. Its time to file complaints at http://www.nrtw.org anytime you have been threatened by anyone that has anything to do with the union. Example the threats of being "outed" or shamed or whatever on the union boards is creating a hostile work environment. Time to take it to ALPO and tell them to stop trying to tell us how to run our lives.
 
D'Angelo,

While I agree with you that no one, union or management should have the right to impose on you, or try to force you to do their will...I think many individuals are looking at it from a different perspective. No one will ever be mad at, hold a grudge against, or feel any ill will towards any employee providing for his/her family. That should be evryones number one priority in life. I think what people are trying to say is that if you can, try to pick up others drop requests first. We have 20 guys now out on the street, and whether they are pawns or not, I really don't know. What I do know is this...it takes at least $10,000 to train a brand new first officer. Let's just say our newbies bring in $1,500 per month their first year. This means that the company is saving $30,000 per month. Now, these pilots were made to complete IOE first...why...most likely so that they can be called back within 3 months without have to do ANY retraining. Let's just say they are gone for 3 months...thats $90,000 dollars that the company saves. However, that means that if 9 don't show back up for class, than this entire furlough was a wash. I will assume that many of them will go and get other jobs..ie CHQ, Horizon, Skywest, etc. It seems to me that it may even cost more in the long run to furlough...but that is my opinion. It is one thing to furlough because you are losing money...or furlough in mass quantities because you lost a lot of flying...but 20 people...thats only about 3% of our pilot group.
 
You know its cool and all that you need to work overtime to feed your families. I'll have to remember that on the first of the month. It sucks that I dont have a job and I am not getting paid at all. But at least someone is able to get someone else is able to be picking up overtime.

Oh wait....I think Im being greedy.
 
purduedchi said:
It seems to me that it may even cost more in the long run to furlough...but that is my opinion. It is one thing to furlough because you are losing money...or furlough in mass quantities because you lost a lot of flying...but 20 people...thats only about 3% of our pilot group.
Cost to train a pilot? 10K (or so), cost to pay a pilot per month? 2K, cost to harass the pilot group and keep the pilot group down? Priceless.
 
Black Hawk said:
Cost to train a pilot? 10K (or so), cost to pay a pilot per month? 2K, cost to harass the pilot group and keep the pilot group down? Priceless.

So true. You should make it into your signature.
 
punkpilot48 said:
You know its cool and all that you need to work overtime to feed your families. I'll have to remember that on the first of the month. It sucks that I dont have a job and I am not getting paid at all. But at least someone is able to get someone else is able to be picking up overtime.

Oh wait....I think Im being greedy.

Nothing personal however picking up the open time has no effect. The company planned on furloughing no matter what. Being on furlough certainly does suck but again there is no direct correlation between not picking up open time and the number of furloughs. If I was on furlough then it probably means times are tough for many people. I would have no problem with someone picking up a little OT while im on the street. Thats just buisness and life.
 
well the talk of the town is us airway is trying to go wholly owned in the future for all regional service. yeh for PSA PIEDMONT-AIRWISCONSIN OUR NEW SISTER
 

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