True Story, no joke....

[Speedtree]

Dep676

I would disagree with you in the fact that we all have equal chances for education and betterment. We are made up of our physiology and environment (phsychology for all you flamers).

I am a white, middle class male who was fortunate enough to go to college (mortgaging my future through loans but at least got to go) and I have to believe that my opportunities for success are better than most inner city kids white or black. I have probably taken my advantages for granted at times but I believe I am doing my best with what I have been given. I agree with some of your comments and share some of your views rightly or wrongly but I also agree with FL000 and that both sides need to have a proper attitude for any change to happen.

Because of who I am I will never know what it's like to be a minority kid living in the inner city or anywhere else, be poor, see all that America has to offer people knowing that my chances of living the dream I see on TV are so remote that I would resort to less than desireable means to achieve something. (Brings to mind American business men who have similar ethics but because of who they are and cash-flow don't end up in the same place).

So I can't judge anyone for what they do in their situation. I can only offer sympathy and whatever help I can give.

O.K. I'm done now.

 

[bobbysamd]

United recruiter

Hey, FlyDelatJets, I got the joke. Nancy Stuke was the United recruiter ten years ago. I remember being in town during that time and hand-carrying an update to her. Although I realistically did not have a chance in he** to get a job there, a retired United captain I knew and who was my dad's college roommate suggested that I try. He even wrote an LOR for me.

 

[ifly4food]

Re: boycott it I bet they wouldn't care.

Macdonalds has been around long enough to where I doubt they need any of your business anyway, so go ahead and boycott it, I bet they wouldn't care.

KSU_Aviator you are a female so you don't need to be talking. And you wonder why you didn't get hired at coex, look how much of a numbskull you are.

ifly4food I'm surprised that you haven't locked this post out already. It definitely shows where you stand.

If you let it continue then we can see who all is racist and who all isn't.

ScRaMjEt.

You seem very angry. Maybe you should seek counseling for that.

How KSU Aviator being female and not getting the job are related beats me. You certianly don't need to call her a numbskull. She's not on a web board insulting people she's never met.

As for telling me how to do my job and implying I'm a racist for letting this continue, again, I missed your point. I voiced my opinion and pointed out that both sides are to blame. You don't even know what race or sex I am, so be careful before you start calling people you don't know names.

This thread is still open because up until your post it was an intelligent and friendly debate. It is also (as pointed out) a constructive way for many to vent. If you don't care to participate in a professional manner, then feel free to go elsewhere.
Regards,
Ifly4food

 

[bobbysamd]

Reverse discrimination

Good comments, Mr./Ms. Moderator.

I hesitated at first about providing the following link because law is hard to decipher sometimes. We all know this because we are always debating (or looking for loopholes in) the FARs. But I thought that in light of this discussion some might find it interesting.

The following is a link I found to Regents of the Univ. of Cal. v. Bakke, 438 U.S. 265 (1978). This is the landmark Supreme Court case that struck down reverse discrimination.

Just to clarify the terminology a bit, Alan Bakke alleged that he was denied admission to the Cal-Davis medical school in favor of minority candidates with lesser qualifications. The lower courts agreed with Bakke. Cal-Davis, the Petitioner, requested the Supreme Cout to review the lower courts' decision.

[edited to remove bad link]

Just more food for thought.

[edited to remove bad link- If4f]

PS-Ifly is correct. Run the search on Bakke and choose the link I found above. Thanks, folks.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Scramjet---

I'm tired of the personal attacks on me. First, I'm not a women. Never have been and never will be. Second, I never said I wondered why I didn't get the COEX job, I openly stated I had a horrible interview. What I did say is that I wondered why those that where more qualified then me didn't get the job.

Who's the numbskull now?

IFF---why are these attacks allowed?

 

[prodigal]

flag waving crackers

Hey FL000,
I must say that was a pretty astute observation for a (I presume from your post) non-native flag waving cracker. As a native and almost life-long flag waving cracker myself I couldn't agree more, even about the MMM thing. If everyone spent as much time trying to improve their lot as they do pi$$ing and moaning about it maybe there would not even be a need to discuss affirm. action.
IFF, as a native flag waving cracker (and by the way, also American citizen who takes his constitution seriously) are you familiar with the First Amendment? (We won't even get into the Second Amendment). I notice you backpedaled a bit after being challenged but one should expect a more circumspect post from a moderator. But hey, there is that pesky First Amendment thing.
Believe it or not, everyone who displays some form of the Confederate flag is not a green-tooth, spit drooling, uneducated, bigoted member of the KKK. Actually I do not, nor have I ever flown a Confederate flag but as an amateur historian of the War Between the States (Civil War is actually a misnomer) and former and long-time reenactor and living historian I can honestly attest to my last statement. It's not even a matter of nuance, it's quite a stark contrast. And as long as I'm venting, it ain't actually the war itself that inflicts itself most harshly on the psyche of the collective South. Ever hear of Reconstruction? It's that 10 year period after the War when the complete rape and economic destruction of the South took place at the hands of the occupation government, whose effects lasted well into the last half of the 20th century, maybe still today in some areas. For the majority of Southerners the War is not just another lesson in the history book, but it's still a bit closer than that. But as time marches on and we old mossbacks with collective memories gradually die out and more northern folks settle here and more PC history is taught I'm sure we'll eventually all be assimilated; after all, resistance is futile.
Well now, I sure do feel better Think I'll go drink a Co-cola.
Anyone else remember them being called "dopes?"

 

[FL000]

Prodigal,

Born and bred Georgian, my fellow cracka'. The "third of a century" is my entire life span, so far. The observations come from a lifetime of experience dealing with these issues day after day. I don't own a flag either, but I sure did think the Stars and Bars looked good on our state flag while it lasted. I was in favor of going back to the pre-1956 design, a real looker. The new one is just a poster for political correctness, and butt ugly to boot.

"Dope"?...nope, hadn't heard that one.

Have a Coke and a (toothless) smile!

 

[ifly4food]

Re: flag waving crackers

IFF, as a native flag waving cracker (and by the way, also American citizen who takes his constitution seriously) are you familiar with the First Amendment? (We won't even get into the Second Amendment). I notice you backpedaled a bit after being challenged but one should expect a more circumspect post from a moderator. But hey, there is that pesky First Amendment thing.

I don't follow you here. If you're implying that I have censored someone unfairly I would argue. I have never censored any post that fell within the rules of the forum, even if I disagreed with them. And BTW, this is a private forum... your 1st ammendment rights do not apply here anyhow.
As for my being a moderator affecting my posts, those who have been here for a while know that I have never pulled any punches just because I'm a moderator... and I've caught a lot of heat for it too. I speak my mind here just like I expect everyone elst to. If some choose to hide behind sarcasm and aphorism, that's their choice.

Believe it or not, everyone who displays some form of the Confederate flag is not a green-tooth, spit drooling, uneducated, bigoted member of the KKK. Actually I do not, nor have I ever flown a Confederate flag but as an amateur historian of the War Between the States (Civil War is actually a misnomer) and former and long-time reenactor and living historian I can honestly attest to my last statement. It's not even a matter of nuance, it's quite a stark contrast. And as long as I'm venting, it ain't actually the war itself that inflicts itself most harshly on the psyche of the collective South. Ever hear of Reconstruction? It's that 10 year period after the War when the complete rape and economic destruction of the South took place at the hands of the occupation government, whose effects lasted well into the last half of the 20th century, maybe still today in some areas. For the majority of Southerners the War is not just another lesson in the history book, but it's still a bit closer than that. But as time marches on and we old mossbacks with collective memories gradually die out and more northern folks settle here and more PC history is taught I'm sure we'll eventually all be assimilated; after all, resistance is futile.
Well now, I sure do feel better Think I'll go drink a Co-cola.

Thanks for embodying everything I was talking about when I said too many Southerners are still fighting the Civil War (or "The War Between The States" or "The War of Northern Agression" or whatever you want to call it).
You're arguing about something that happened 150 years ago. Let's live in the future, not the past.
I won't even counter your points about the Reconstruction being unfair and such because this is an aviation forum. However I will say that you don't hear these statements up North. Maybe there's just a little sour grapes still growing down there with the Kudzu. Sometimes when you take a gamble you lose and pay the price. Oh well.

Let's get this back on topic. Again, I say that nobody should get special treatment when applying for a job based on who your are or where you're from. It should all be based on comparative qualifications.

 

[wildbill]

Hey FL000,
As a fellow Georgian, I hate that gawdy new flag too. Because of that political correctness and a wooss for a governor we have it. That along with the word "boycott" we are stuck. As to being called a cracka, l live in a town known as the mule capital of Georgia so I'm stuck with the name. I do prefer Honkey better. I guess it is time to go to the airport now and sit in the rocking chairs, chew a little ta-backee and discuss how bad the world has treated me. Maybe a glass of sweet tea will help....

 

[Dep676]

Speedtree

I to am a white middle class male. I put myself through college and was starting a family at the same time, wife and kid. I don't live in big city where we have the inner city kids. But I went to college in a town where there is a big population of less fortunate. I was in class with a lot people that were not paying there own way and it showed. They wouldn't show up to class everytime and then they would have to take it over on my nickle per say. Cause they were getting free money to go. But I couldn't get a nickle of that for myself because I was working a full-time job and paying taxes. So these people could go to school for free and screw off. So don't preach to me that we all don't have the same chance for an education. It's called getting out the situation that your parents are raising you in and getting out. There are plenty of programs for the inner city other than our famous Welfare program. And just so you know my mother was welfare when I was a kid and she had to work for it at the welfare office. She didn't just sit home and wait for the check to come so she could cash it and go buy crack to smoke. Maybe you don't want to realize what a problem out Welfare is but you need to wake up and open your eyes. And just see where your tax dollars are going.

THERE I AM DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[prodigal]

first amendment

IFF,
I wasn't suggesting that you had censored any posts when I referred to the First Amendment, but rather referred to your implicit suggestion that the flag waving crackers below the Mason-Dixon shouldn't be excersizing their first amnt. rights to do whatever.
If it is not an appropriate subject for this forum then perhaps you should not have made the comment to begin with, thus my suggestion about being a bit more circumspect. Did you really expect a comment like that to go unchallenged? One can't make such inflammatory comments in one moment and in the next moment appeal to everyone to keep the content and tone professional.

Hey FL000, Sorry about the slight. Salutations to a fellow cracker. BTW, a "dope" is an old expression for Coke as this drink at one time in fact contained cocaine. Dope=Coke, not to be confused with some message board moderators making intemperate remarks.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Coca Cola never contained cocaine, its just an "Urban Legend"

As a side note, I'm betting the debate over calling it pop, soda, coke or whatever would probably be more heated then racism or security debates.

 

[jaybird]

it's soda not pop!

 

[bobbysamd]

Pop v. Soda v. Tonic

Depends on the part of the country you're in.

In the west, it's called pop. Other parts of the country, and more toward the East, it's called soda. If you're in Boston, the stuff that you can mix with gin is not necessarily quinine water; it can be Coke, Pepsi and for the Southerners who've been following this thread, RC.

 

[tdvalve]

"Coca Cola never contained cocaine, its just an "Urban Legend" "

Better check again: Coca Cola originally did contain small amounts of cocaine. This can be verified on the "Urban Legend" website. http://www.snopes2.com/

 

[ksu_aviator]

I checked again and this is what I found at the Coca Cola Website.

Coca-Cola does not contain cocaine or any other harmful substance, and cocaine has never been an added ingredient for Coca-Cola.

Until someone can find a more reliable source (a website that is aimed at shocking people doesn't count) then I stand behind my statement. There has never been cocaine in Coca Cola, its just an "urban legend"

 

[Timebuilder]

Maybe the company is splitting a very fine hair here. They may be saying that only a certain formula, without Cocaine, qualifies as being referred to as "Coca Cola", and that a previous formula, containing the aformentioned substance, will not be referred to using the company name. I saw a special on TLC or the History Channel last year that clearly stated that many soft drinks, including the one we are discussing, did indeed contain all sorts of drugs, until they became controlled substances under the drug and cosmetic act.

Perhaps a book on the early days of the FDA would be a good place to research this.

Man, I wish I was flying today!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FL000]

They're splitting hairs alright, but it comes in the phrase "added ingredient." The cocaine is an innate part of the coca leaf. What they are saying is that cocaine was never added to the mix in a pure form.

From Coca-Cola: An Illustrated History, by Pat Watters:

[on the existence of cocaine in Coca-Cola]

"It is not, of course, as the company would have everyone know. But once it was, according to no less an authority than a pamphlet released by Asa Candler in 1901 titled What is it? What it is....

"An analytical chemist, Dr. H.R. Slack, had analyzed the drink ten years previously and found only an infinitesimal trace of the drug, the pamphlet said. Pointing out that many coca leaves are required to make a small amount of the narcotic and that only a small quantity of the leaf went into Coca-Cola..."

 

[TurboS7]

Wish you guys had been my college profs. you all sure lover rabbit trails.

 

[ukcats]

Hey, ifly4food. I thought you where supposed to be a moderator, not an instigator. Your dumbass comment about people south of the Mason-Dixon didn't show much moderation. Before you belittle us southern folk with your confused, biased reteric, go spend the afternoon at the FBO in Teterhole, La Garbage, Providence, (insert any Northeast city). Now, go spend the next day at an FBO in Lexington, Atlanta, or Dallas. Tell me which has the nicest people, surroundings, and service. No contest. I would rather get poked in the eye with a stick than fly to the Northeast. People, service, and facilities are much better in the South. Think before you speak, jackass.

 

[ifly4food]

Your dumbass comment about people south of the Mason-Dixon didn't show much moderation. Before you belittle us southern folk with your confused, biased reteric, go spend the afternoon at the FBO in Teterhole, La Garbage, Providence, (insert any Northeast city). Now, go spend the next day at an FBO in Lexington, Atlanta, or Dallas. Tell me which has the nicest people, surroundings, and service. No contest. I would rather get poked in the eye with a stick than fly to the Northeast. People, service, and facilities are much better in the South. Think before you speak, jackass.

Who looks like more of a jackass? Me for speaking my mind or you for your uneducated response?
I didn't belittle you unless you fall into the category I spoke of. Do you? If not than I wasn't insulting you personally. Rather, I was showing that there are guilty parties on both sides of this debate. I live up north and work down south. I've spent plenty of time in LEX, ATL and Dallas. I don't need you to tell me what it's like. And FYI, I could say the same about the northeast or the midwest.
I'm neither confused nor biased. I'd rather spend time down south drinking sweet tea. That's why I choose to remain working for a southern company (ASA). Southern prople are far more friendly.
I was not putting all southerners down. Just the ones I described.

Thank you for an objective and intelligent response (sarcasm intended). I don't understand how anyone unaquainted with the South could think people down there are ignorant after reading a response like yours. I'm glad most Southerners aren't like you.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Did you see this....I bet not

In Jasper Tx it happened again. Remember when James Bird was drug around Jasper by 3 white men. Remember the public outcry and hatred. Remember every news agency and television news magazine reporting every angle possible. Well, its happened again, but the roles are reversed. This time it was a white guy who was drug to his death by three black men. And I'd be willing to bet that absolutely no one here has even heard of the incident (outside those that live in tx).

Is this not the definition of hate crime? Why haven't ABC, CBS and NBC aired one comment about the crime?

I'm sure its because they are a liberal media and this kind of violence doesn't fit into their "plans" for America. If they reported this crime and made national head lines out of it, what would happen to AA or hate crime bills? People would see that racism isn't a one way door. They would realize that all Americans are equally capable of these types of crimes.

Does equality fit into a liberal agenda?

NO!

They use divide and concur tactics to turn people in this country against themselves. Then, they claim to support every minority group so they will get all of their votes.

They also count on stupidity and poor educational systems to repress those that are minorities. Case in point, Bush suggests a plan to give anyone who attends a school that does not meet the national standards money to attend a private school. This would lead to better education for those who accepted the offer along with providing strong incentives to schools to improve their scores. But liberals lashed out, claiming it would be unconstitutional. A violation of Seperation of Church and State. By killing this bill they have kept many people down. Where are the worst schools? Where do minorities tend to live? The answer to both those questions is in the inner city.

Ok, I got off the point of aviation hiring, but its still loosely tied. Liberals use bills like AA to cause more tension between races. This allows them to continue to receive the minority votes. They in turn, pass more legislation that holds back the minorities. The best examples are well fair and food stamps. Once you are on those systems it is extremely hard to get off of them. The majority of americans on well fair are minorities and single women. And those are the people that vote for them the most. What is even more disgusting is that they make hundred's of thousands of dollars a year off of these people while they remain in poverty. Some "Great Society"

 

[FL000]

KSU-A,

through what media outlet did you hear that story? Do you have a link or a source? I'd like to get my hands on it. When did it happen?

Thanks

 

[prodigal]

professionalism

IFF,
You continue to uphold the highest standards of professionalism (sarcasm intended).
Let it rest man. Go drink a Coke.

 

[ksu_aviator]

I heard of it on the Neal Boortz show. I've only listened to him a couple of times, not exactly a big fan. Any how, he is a Libritarian news talk show host and his web site is www.boortz.com

Unfortunately after searching on AOL for about 10 minutes I found absolutely no other articles pertaining to the crime.

 

[ukcats]

So, ifly4food, my use of the words dumbass, and jackass, make my post unprofesional and unintelligent. I suppose your use of the word "Cracker" to describe people south of the Mason-Dixon line, and their feelings of pride about their history and culture, is eloquent and enlightened. You are a hypocrite. Affirmative action, the subject of the thread if I remember correctly, is opposed by a wide variety of people. This opposition is not confined by geographic bounderies. Your jab at people who are proud to be from the south, was irresponsible, and uncalled for. It had no bearing or relation to the subject of the thread. If this is the best you can do as "moderator", then maybe you should just turn off the computer, and go spend time with your family.

 

[enigma]

I too heard the story. It was reported on Dallas' #1 radio station WBAP, but it died quickly. It used to be on the Lufkin newspapers website, but I can't find it there now. www.lufkindailynews.com.

 

[TurboS7]

Come on down to South Florida, all we have here are a bunch of Newyorkers still trying to figure out why it is warm in January.