True Story, no joke....

[ksu_aviator]

Woohoo I didn't get trashed! That has to be a first...by the way its not soda...its pop I have to stir up some kind of contraversy. Oh by they way folks, prop trash was just trying to be funny, lighten up and take a joke for once.

 

[FL000]

Hey it's there right to wave that flag if they choose too. But is it ok for people to hold a million man march in the US capital.

I don't often come to the defense of civil rights activists, but the Million Man March was not to shake fists at Whitey. It was an expression of "atonement and reconciliation", and a call to blacks to better themselves and their environs through self control and self respect. For those interested in the mood of the march, here is a link to my buddy Farrakhan's
Million Man March Pledge.

IFF, having spent a third of a century down South, I can tell you that the flag wavers don't much like being told what to do (see: American History--Civil War--States Rights). When NAACP, et al, start telling folks where and when they can hang their Stars and Bars, it doesn't go over too well. It's not about the flag, though. The issue is a metaphor for racial tension as a whole. I can also tell you that if there were an effort on BOTH sides of the race issue to work together for the greater good of the entire community, then we could all get along. By the way, I say "both" sides because these tensions don't exist between whites and Hispanics, Muslims, Asians, etc.

Inicidents like the pilot hiring stories listed above are what keep the white folk from trusting and embracing the black folk down here. They want to see a LEVEL playing field. When perfectly qualified white pilots are being turned down for flying jobs because they are not a shade of brown, that is not a LEVEL field. Is it a taste of our own medicine? Sure. Is it right? Hell no.

Others will argue that the practice is an effort to level the field. In other words, things have to be unfair for a little while until blacks are properly represented, then they'll stop. But you can't have it both ways. Wrong is wrong.

Oh, and KSUaviator...it's not pop, it's Coke. For example:

--Hey Bubba, you wanna Coke?

--Yup

--What kind?

--Sprite.

 

[Dep676]

Thats all fine and dandy to want to better your self. But don't blame it on "whitey" or someone else. Look in the mirror first. I am a reserve deputy with my local county. Just look at the prison system. It's not my fault that they are in there. I didn't tell them to sell crack or commit other crimes to get them sent to the big house. Don't cry on my shoulder about it. Do something about like stay in school and better yourself. We all have the same opportunity do go to school and get an education.

 

[ifly4food]

Re: Ifly4food

Hey it's there right to wave that flag if they choose too. But is it ok for people to hold a million man march in the US capital. I don't agree with any discrimination either. We all should be looked at for our qualifications not color or anything else.

I'll second that timebuilder we need to get rid of these loud mouth idiots like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and Louie. If a white man was doing that he would be called a racist.

Originally posted by FL000
IFF, having spent a third of a century down South, I can tell you that the flag wavers don't much like being told what to do (see: American History--Civil War--States Rights). When NAACP, et al, start telling folks where and when they can hang their Stars and Bars, it doesn't go over too well. It's not about the flag, though. The issue is a metaphor for racial tension as a whole. I can also tell you that if there were an effort on BOTH sides of the race issue to work together for the greater good of the entire community, then we could all get along. By the way, I say "both" sides because these tensions don't exist between whites and Hispanics, Muslims,Asians, etc.

The comment about the "Rebel Flag wavers" was indeed a metaphor. I was trying to show that there are extremists on both sides. I support neither. We really can be our own worst enemy when we play the "race card"; regardless of what side you're on.
Point: for it to stop, both sides need to stop... not just the NAACP and not just the (insert pro white group here).

As a side note to Timebuilder, Harpo Productions is owned by Oprah. It is actually "Oprah" spelled backwards. I seriously doubt if they're afraid of "minority litigation" except that which they file.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

UAL,

That McDonald's recruiter wasn't Nancy Stuke, was she?


(Hoping someone familiar with UAL gets my humor!)

 

[wildbill]

I think it is time for someone to define the term "minority". I have heard this term over and over again in terms of political correctness and I am tired of it. All of this tap dancing around has got to stop. Who in fact is a minority or what is a minority? American Indians who got the royal shaft or what. I am also tired of these terms for division. People who are qualified for a job should be considered, period. I nor anyone else who participates on this board is old enough to be responsible for things done in the past and i for one am tired of all of this so called correctness being shoved down my throat. As for the turn around in court decisions, look to Atlanta. The city has now lost millions because they chose to hire for skin color and that being black over white.
Its time to get over all this nonsense.
My two cents.

 

[FL000]

Wildbill,

You are correct about discrimination against whites in Atlanta. I am gladly forking over county tax dollars to pay off the $25 million civil award to the three Fulton County librarians who were demoted because they were white. It's a great start to show that (reverse) discrimination is just plain wrong.

MARTA is battling more than one similar suit, and I think Hartsfield is the next battleground with all of the shady contracts awarded over there. There is a series in the AJC which started today that is going to further expose the minority blockade of fair contract bidding at Hartsfield. One example reported is that the "godmother of one of [former mayor Maynard] Jackson's children is the minority partner on a contract that hasn't been rebid since 1981."

Now we are getting $360 million worth of DIRT for the 5th runway from a minority contractor, THE ONLY BIDDER. City Council voted down the deal recently, but arbitrator decided Thursday to reverse the vote and give the ridiculously high bid back to the contractor. Bend over, Atlanta!

Link to AJC series on preferrential bidding at ATL

 

[ScRaMJeT]

boycott it I bet they wouldn't care.

Macdonalds has been around long enough to where I doubt they need any of your business anyway, so go ahead and boycott it, I bet they wouldn't care.

KSU_Aviator you are a female so you don't need to be talking. And you wonder why you didn't get hired at coex, look how much of a numbskull you are.

ifly4food I'm surprised that you haven't locked this post out already. It definitely shows where you stand.

If you let it continue then we can see who all is racist and who all isn't.

ScRaMjEt.

 

[wildbill]

When observations are made and feelings are expressed openly the big "R" word comes out. Scramjet, you need to get out your dictionary and look up the word. You will find that none of the posters here fit the description. What everyone here has requested is "fairness" to everyone on their skills and abilities. Nothing more nothing less. If you are looking for sympathy, you have come to the wrong place. All of us have kicked, scrimped, and suffered many setbacks in our careers to get where we are. Some of those now even unemployed. All they ask for is a "level" playing field to get back up on. They don't cry and claim they were mistreated and they sure don't blame history for the results of a slack economy. As to a boycott of McDonalds, they will get theirs in the end. We are all bigger than that, but we can talk can't we? As to Ifly4food, I appreciate his allowing us to vent a situation that needs to be aired. It has nothing to do with that "R" word you have thrown out there. If you don't know what the problem is how can you overcome it.

 

[414Flyer]

Maybe someone should send in a resume for "DeMetrius Williams" or "Shaniqua Brown" and see what the results are.

 

[Speedtree]

Dep676

I would disagree with you in the fact that we all have equal chances for education and betterment. We are made up of our physiology and environment (phsychology for all you flamers).

I am a white, middle class male who was fortunate enough to go to college (mortgaging my future through loans but at least got to go) and I have to believe that my opportunities for success are better than most inner city kids white or black. I have probably taken my advantages for granted at times but I believe I am doing my best with what I have been given. I agree with some of your comments and share some of your views rightly or wrongly but I also agree with FL000 and that both sides need to have a proper attitude for any change to happen.

Because of who I am I will never know what it's like to be a minority kid living in the inner city or anywhere else, be poor, see all that America has to offer people knowing that my chances of living the dream I see on TV are so remote that I would resort to less than desireable means to achieve something. (Brings to mind American business men who have similar ethics but because of who they are and cash-flow don't end up in the same place).

So I can't judge anyone for what they do in their situation. I can only offer sympathy and whatever help I can give.

O.K. I'm done now.

 

[bobbysamd]

United recruiter

Hey, FlyDelatJets, I got the joke. Nancy Stuke was the United recruiter ten years ago. I remember being in town during that time and hand-carrying an update to her. Although I realistically did not have a chance in he** to get a job there, a retired United captain I knew and who was my dad's college roommate suggested that I try. He even wrote an LOR for me.

 

[ifly4food]

Re: boycott it I bet they wouldn't care.

Macdonalds has been around long enough to where I doubt they need any of your business anyway, so go ahead and boycott it, I bet they wouldn't care.

KSU_Aviator you are a female so you don't need to be talking. And you wonder why you didn't get hired at coex, look how much of a numbskull you are.

ifly4food I'm surprised that you haven't locked this post out already. It definitely shows where you stand.

If you let it continue then we can see who all is racist and who all isn't.

ScRaMjEt.

You seem very angry. Maybe you should seek counseling for that.

How KSU Aviator being female and not getting the job are related beats me. You certianly don't need to call her a numbskull. She's not on a web board insulting people she's never met.

As for telling me how to do my job and implying I'm a racist for letting this continue, again, I missed your point. I voiced my opinion and pointed out that both sides are to blame. You don't even know what race or sex I am, so be careful before you start calling people you don't know names.

This thread is still open because up until your post it was an intelligent and friendly debate. It is also (as pointed out) a constructive way for many to vent. If you don't care to participate in a professional manner, then feel free to go elsewhere.
Regards,
Ifly4food

 

[bobbysamd]

Reverse discrimination

Good comments, Mr./Ms. Moderator.

I hesitated at first about providing the following link because law is hard to decipher sometimes. We all know this because we are always debating (or looking for loopholes in) the FARs. But I thought that in light of this discussion some might find it interesting.

The following is a link I found to Regents of the Univ. of Cal. v. Bakke, 438 U.S. 265 (1978). This is the landmark Supreme Court case that struck down reverse discrimination.

Just to clarify the terminology a bit, Alan Bakke alleged that he was denied admission to the Cal-Davis medical school in favor of minority candidates with lesser qualifications. The lower courts agreed with Bakke. Cal-Davis, the Petitioner, requested the Supreme Cout to review the lower courts' decision.

[edited to remove bad link]

Just more food for thought.

[edited to remove bad link- If4f]

PS-Ifly is correct. Run the search on Bakke and choose the link I found above. Thanks, folks.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Scramjet---

I'm tired of the personal attacks on me. First, I'm not a women. Never have been and never will be. Second, I never said I wondered why I didn't get the COEX job, I openly stated I had a horrible interview. What I did say is that I wondered why those that where more qualified then me didn't get the job.

Who's the numbskull now?

IFF---why are these attacks allowed?

 

[prodigal]

flag waving crackers

Hey FL000,
I must say that was a pretty astute observation for a (I presume from your post) non-native flag waving cracker. As a native and almost life-long flag waving cracker myself I couldn't agree more, even about the MMM thing. If everyone spent as much time trying to improve their lot as they do pi$$ing and moaning about it maybe there would not even be a need to discuss affirm. action.
IFF, as a native flag waving cracker (and by the way, also American citizen who takes his constitution seriously) are you familiar with the First Amendment? (We won't even get into the Second Amendment). I notice you backpedaled a bit after being challenged but one should expect a more circumspect post from a moderator. But hey, there is that pesky First Amendment thing.
Believe it or not, everyone who displays some form of the Confederate flag is not a green-tooth, spit drooling, uneducated, bigoted member of the KKK. Actually I do not, nor have I ever flown a Confederate flag but as an amateur historian of the War Between the States (Civil War is actually a misnomer) and former and long-time reenactor and living historian I can honestly attest to my last statement. It's not even a matter of nuance, it's quite a stark contrast. And as long as I'm venting, it ain't actually the war itself that inflicts itself most harshly on the psyche of the collective South. Ever hear of Reconstruction? It's that 10 year period after the War when the complete rape and economic destruction of the South took place at the hands of the occupation government, whose effects lasted well into the last half of the 20th century, maybe still today in some areas. For the majority of Southerners the War is not just another lesson in the history book, but it's still a bit closer than that. But as time marches on and we old mossbacks with collective memories gradually die out and more northern folks settle here and more PC history is taught I'm sure we'll eventually all be assimilated; after all, resistance is futile.
Well now, I sure do feel better Think I'll go drink a Co-cola.
Anyone else remember them being called "dopes?"

 

[FL000]

Prodigal,

Born and bred Georgian, my fellow cracka'. The "third of a century" is my entire life span, so far. The observations come from a lifetime of experience dealing with these issues day after day. I don't own a flag either, but I sure did think the Stars and Bars looked good on our state flag while it lasted. I was in favor of going back to the pre-1956 design, a real looker. The new one is just a poster for political correctness, and butt ugly to boot.

"Dope"?...nope, hadn't heard that one.

Have a Coke and a (toothless) smile!

 

[ifly4food]

Re: flag waving crackers

IFF, as a native flag waving cracker (and by the way, also American citizen who takes his constitution seriously) are you familiar with the First Amendment? (We won't even get into the Second Amendment). I notice you backpedaled a bit after being challenged but one should expect a more circumspect post from a moderator. But hey, there is that pesky First Amendment thing.

I don't follow you here. If you're implying that I have censored someone unfairly I would argue. I have never censored any post that fell within the rules of the forum, even if I disagreed with them. And BTW, this is a private forum... your 1st ammendment rights do not apply here anyhow.
As for my being a moderator affecting my posts, those who have been here for a while know that I have never pulled any punches just because I'm a moderator... and I've caught a lot of heat for it too. I speak my mind here just like I expect everyone elst to. If some choose to hide behind sarcasm and aphorism, that's their choice.

Believe it or not, everyone who displays some form of the Confederate flag is not a green-tooth, spit drooling, uneducated, bigoted member of the KKK. Actually I do not, nor have I ever flown a Confederate flag but as an amateur historian of the War Between the States (Civil War is actually a misnomer) and former and long-time reenactor and living historian I can honestly attest to my last statement. It's not even a matter of nuance, it's quite a stark contrast. And as long as I'm venting, it ain't actually the war itself that inflicts itself most harshly on the psyche of the collective South. Ever hear of Reconstruction? It's that 10 year period after the War when the complete rape and economic destruction of the South took place at the hands of the occupation government, whose effects lasted well into the last half of the 20th century, maybe still today in some areas. For the majority of Southerners the War is not just another lesson in the history book, but it's still a bit closer than that. But as time marches on and we old mossbacks with collective memories gradually die out and more northern folks settle here and more PC history is taught I'm sure we'll eventually all be assimilated; after all, resistance is futile.
Well now, I sure do feel better Think I'll go drink a Co-cola.

Thanks for embodying everything I was talking about when I said too many Southerners are still fighting the Civil War (or "The War Between The States" or "The War of Northern Agression" or whatever you want to call it).
You're arguing about something that happened 150 years ago. Let's live in the future, not the past.
I won't even counter your points about the Reconstruction being unfair and such because this is an aviation forum. However I will say that you don't hear these statements up North. Maybe there's just a little sour grapes still growing down there with the Kudzu. Sometimes when you take a gamble you lose and pay the price. Oh well.

Let's get this back on topic. Again, I say that nobody should get special treatment when applying for a job based on who your are or where you're from. It should all be based on comparative qualifications.

 

[wildbill]

Hey FL000,
As a fellow Georgian, I hate that gawdy new flag too. Because of that political correctness and a wooss for a governor we have it. That along with the word "boycott" we are stuck. As to being called a cracka, l live in a town known as the mule capital of Georgia so I'm stuck with the name. I do prefer Honkey better. I guess it is time to go to the airport now and sit in the rocking chairs, chew a little ta-backee and discuss how bad the world has treated me. Maybe a glass of sweet tea will help....

 

[Dep676]

Speedtree

I to am a white middle class male. I put myself through college and was starting a family at the same time, wife and kid. I don't live in big city where we have the inner city kids. But I went to college in a town where there is a big population of less fortunate. I was in class with a lot people that were not paying there own way and it showed. They wouldn't show up to class everytime and then they would have to take it over on my nickle per say. Cause they were getting free money to go. But I couldn't get a nickle of that for myself because I was working a full-time job and paying taxes. So these people could go to school for free and screw off. So don't preach to me that we all don't have the same chance for an education. It's called getting out the situation that your parents are raising you in and getting out. There are plenty of programs for the inner city other than our famous Welfare program. And just so you know my mother was welfare when I was a kid and she had to work for it at the welfare office. She didn't just sit home and wait for the check to come so she could cash it and go buy crack to smoke. Maybe you don't want to realize what a problem out Welfare is but you need to wake up and open your eyes. And just see where your tax dollars are going.

THERE I AM DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!