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Trickle down effect

Spooky 1

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What do the corporate pilots who have been on the purely corporate side of the house for the last say, ten years think regarding downward pressure on compensation? A lot large companies use compenation analysts to determine where various pay scales should be within their company's overall pay structure. These folks certainly are not imune to the draconian reductions in pay within the airline industry and I amwondering if you think this will trickle down to the corporate side of the business. I am assuming that during the years that airline pay escalated out of sight, there was a commensurate increase on the corporate incomes as well. My interest is directed at those pilots flying for well established flight departments with the heavy iron type of equipment. Opinions please!
 

h25b

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Looking at what Stanton-Group's numbers are saying I can't say that I see any downward pressure. Any of the corporate compensation people I've known of aren't looking at what airline pilots are making because they aren't in the airline business. It's apples and oranges.

At least in reputable operations, the costs involved with adding/retaining flight crews are much more transparent than at pilot training mills like regional carriers and you tend to get what you pay for...
 
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Otter

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Im with h25b.

In the air carrier industry pilots are a collective labor group and a major piece of the cost model for making a profit.

In the pure 91 corporate arena (sans 91/135 outfits), the pilots are considered professionals, compensated accordingly, and not viewed as, or looked to as a profit center. With the removal of profit as a driver for a segment of a business model (aviation viewed solely as a cost of doing business, or time vs. money benefit to execs and staff) the pressure for decreasing salary is lessened if not removed. IMHO
 

Lead Sled

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I'm with h25b and Otter on this as well. We recently did a comprehensive salary analysis and for us exclusive part 91 guys there was no downward pressure noted or indicated. What I think that you're seeing is Ma Nature's way of bringing the universe back in equilibium - let's be honest, some of those ALPA guys were way over compensated and the system simply couldn't sustain it. When it comes to Part 135/121 operations, they have to be profitable or they simply can't survive. In these operations, the airplane is the profit center. In part 91 operations, the airplane is just another asset (albeit an expensive one) that the company owns.

'Sled
 

2EASYPilot

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While there may not be a downward pressure, my latest Stanton numbers for our equipment are flat as far as the captain range this year. I have talked to others that are seeing the same thing.
 

Spooky 1

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I am not familiar with the Stanton numbers. Can you tell me more about this?
 

h25b

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I agree that they were flat, but I haven't heard of anyone cutting payrates either... I would characterize it more as a period of compensation stabilization. No evidence at all of any sort of downward pressure. To accurately say, there's just an absence of upward pressure. One of the main factors compensation people look at is the ability of the company to "attract and retain" personel at a given compensation package. In today's environment there are plenty of willing applicants which somewhat explains the lack of at least upward pressure. Also, more people are just staying put and riding out the industry downturn.

Go to www.Stanton-Group.com and check them out. They are the standard of compensation data for most Fortune 500 flight departments. They regularly publish the "Industrial Flight Compensation Survey"...
 
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semperfido

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Spooky 1 said:
I amwondering if you think this will trickle down to the corporate side of the business.

I don't think airline pilot pay or airline pilot supply will have much of an effect on our compensation as experienced G550/GV/GIV pilots in the short run (1-5 yrs). Reason: 1. Airline Pilot Compensation is not a variable mgmt uses in comparisons. 2. Short supply - Big demand for pilots with corp experience in large corp equipment.

Spooky 1 said:
What do the corporate pilots who have been on the purely corporate side of the house for the last say, ten years think regarding downward pressure on compensation? !

I have sensed a slight upward pressure on compensation in the G community. I don't pay too much attention to it. It is nasty what is hapenning in the airline industry. :(
 
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G4G5

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Stanton requires that the corporations involved pay a fee to be involved with the survey. It's not open to the public, if I remember correctly it use to cost $2000+ to get involved.

Airline salaries don't have anything to do with corporate salaries. I tried going down that route with my boss back in 2000 when the airlines were paying well. He told me to get a job with the airlines, I did.

My new boss jokingly suggested that we take pay cuts like airline pilots. I asked him if it was OK that I take up the idea with the CEO on my next flight.

Sir, the DO says that we all should be paid like the airlines. Last year the CEO of AA made approx $565,000 and you made XX billions. What do you think?
 

G4G5

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Doesn't the price vary depending upon the size of your flt dept? Not sure just asking because that is what I was told.
 

h25b

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I'm not exactly sure how the pricing goes. I have been going by the ones a previous employer has been giving me and I'm currently waiting on the information to come in the mail to get our department going with them. The rep. I spoke with T. Christianson (I think that was her name), is sending me their entire info. package but she said I could go ahead and purchase the most current edition for a flat $700. She said the pricing varies with what type of participant you were, etc...

At least that's what I remember... I recall thinking to myself, whatever, just go ahead and send the info !!! So I'm, just waiting...
 

2EASYPilot

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"I have sensed a slight upward pressure on compensation in the G community. I don't pay too much attention to it. It is nasty what is hapenning in the airline industry. :("


Actually, our HR folks use the "G" numbers and the Falcon numbers for our comparison and they were all down ever slightly...the range that is.
 

AA717driver

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Ok, it was my impression that in the late '90's the corporate compensation took a jump because of airlines hiring with higher pay. Now, that was my view from the airline side.

But I think that unless you have a true average (every corporate pilot's compensation--pay, bonuses and overtime) you can't really determine if the airline pay has an impact on pt. 91 compensation or not.

I guess the best indicator would be to look at the entry level for all ranges of equipment. Check with the 135 operators, not the F100 pt.91 outfits. JMO.TC
 
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