Travis Barker Blames Pilots, Equipment for Plane Crash

[Fly91]

If the Fadec / TR / squatswitch combination has the problem as discussed in a different thread, then the lawsuit is legit. If the tires of this series / production batch have an issue, same thing.

Every plane I've ever seen has the same problem, exposed squat switches and their wiring. If a tire blows we could have the same accident again.
Hopefully the pilot takes it into the air like they're supposed to if its after V1.

I don't see how anyone can prove the tires were defective, they're in a million pieces and melted. But I'm sure the plaintiffs and the defendants attorneys will have "expert witnesses" fighting over this in court. Pathetic.

How worn were these tires, how were the pressures? Pilot's responsibility to inform maintenance.

That would point to pilot error.

Does this plane have tire pressure monitoring equipment? If not, why not?

If it did, again, its pilot error.

Sometimes a lawsuit like this can lead to product improvements, something everybody will benefit from.

It can also lead to bankruptcy for companies. Economics and profits are always and will always be more important then human life. They might get a settlement out of this, but planes will not be changed.

The lawsuit might have some teeth to it, but its pathetic to award anyone money for those reasons. 90 million people a year get on planes in the USA alone, all of them knowing that it can crash for a thousand different reasons. Flying isn't perfectly safe, never will be, and everyone knows it.

Those same people get in there cars every day too, knowing they could die minutes later.

Does this mean when something goes wrong it should mean....."screw you, pay me."

Lawsuits are bullsh1t and its one of the many downfalls of the great USA.

 

[Fly91]

We should adopt laws from other countries regarding accidental death. $500 maximum award per person, like they have in some Indonesian countries.

Whats the point in making a family member rich if their loved one is already dead?

Nothing but greed. It certainly isn't going to put a dent in a company like GY or Bombardier and the charter operators are covered for this type of thing and business goes on. If the award is more than the insurance coverage, they file bankruptcy and form a new LLC the next day. If they were smart, they have their names Clay and Global as "DBA's" so they can keep using those names. They won't skip a beat in their businesses.

 

[Fly91]

Before we all join the don't blame the pilots and screw everyone that sues band wagon, look at what he sued for. It wasn't 1.4 billion dollars for emotioinal distress. It was for 25K. Loss of pay and medical bills. You all would probably sue for more. I know I would.

I don;t believe for a minute that they will only be asking for $25K. Give it time to develope. if that were all they REALLY wanted, GY, Bombardier, Global and Clay would get together and cut a check tomorrow.

Don't be surprised if its $100 million in a few months.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

We should adopt laws from other countries regarding accidental death. $500 maximum award per person, like they have in some Indonesian countries.

Whats the point in making a family member rich if their loved one is already dead?

Nothing but greed. It certainly isn't going to put a dent in a company like GY or Bombardier and the charter operators are covered for this type of thing and business goes on. If the award is more than the insurance coverage, they file bankruptcy and form a new LLC the next day. If they were smart, they have their names Clay and Global as "DBA's" so they can keep using those names. They won't skip a beat in their businesses.

The point?

The simple truth is the only way to presuade businesses to change their bahavior/products to enhance safety is by hitting them in the only place they listen -- their bank accounts.

A handful of people died here and a few more nearly burned to death...

Modeling ourselves after Indonesia? -- :0

Was this the fault of a poor brake design? (no brakes after tire failure)

was it the result of poor training/execution (abort after V1?)

While I wont pass judgement, Id imgine this is not "just an accident"

Were contract pilots used? How did this affect the situation? who authorized them? (KPWK accident)

Theres lots of factors, but I'd sure be pissed if I was this guy also. He's lucky to be alive, unlike his 4 friends and the pilots. While Im not for ludicrous lawsuits - Id sure like to know what happened here, not just "it was an accident"

 

[Fly91]

The point?

The point is: This country is sue happy, its no secret. And Americans are pathetic with all of the lawsuits they file each year, most of them being complete BS and getting thrown out.

The simple truth is the only way to presuade businesses to change their bahavior/products to enhance safety is by hitting them in the only place they listen -- their bank accounts.

You don't hit their bank accounts, the insurance pays for it whether its a settlement or judgement from a jury. The companies NEVER go out of business, not big ones like these anyway.

Why doesn't every corporate jet have an EVS system like the G550, can't everyone that loses a loved one in a crash due to bad weather sue the manufacturer of the plane if it doesn't have the EVS system. Isn't that a design flaw if the technology is there? Can't crash victims and survivors of planes that go off the ends of runways sue the state and local governments for not having an arresting net at the end of every runway in case a plane is going off the end? How about being able to sue airlines that don't use a big giant parachute to save the plane when it runs out of gas, the technology is there? See where I'm going......there's always something to sue for.

Human error is the only thing that makes sense in this case.

I think if a passenger is stepping off a plane and the air stairs moves away from the plane and they fall and break their back, then yes, they should sue the airline for not properly securing it.

A handful of people died here and a few more nearly burned to death...

Thats the risk you take when you take a machine into the air. Now if a HUMAN (pilot(s)) screwed up and could have avoided that accident, or at least minimized its effects by so simply following procedure.....they should be sued upside down and sideways. Or in this case, the insurance company that insured those pilots, since they are deceased.

Modeling ourselves after Indonesia? -- :0

Thats right. Money can't bring people back from the dead and it can't take burn scars off the body, so what good is making some family member rich? It does NOTHING!!! It just makes everything in aviation more expensive for everyone via increased insurance premiums, and the insurance companies make more money.

If you could only sue for say, $1,000 per death in this country, noone would file a lawsuit...WHY? There's no cha-ching factor in it for them.

Was this the fault of a poor brake design? (no brakes after tire failure)

No, not at all. That braking system is on the Lear 23,24,25,35,31,55 and 60, its been working great since the 1950's. Brakes are not the weak link in a braking system anyway, the tires are! Any braking system made can easily lock up a tire, just like on all of our cars, you stand on the brakes and they will lock up easily. Without tires making traction, what good are great brakes?

was it the result of poor training/execution (abort after V1?)

Its looking that way. Until something else points in a different direction, this accident is pilot error. Tires blow, you can't blame GY in any way shape or form. Maybe there was a piece of debris on the runway that blew the tire. I guess they should sue the airport for not cleaning the runway before each take-off. Thats the only way that debris could never be blamed for the cause of a blown tire. You think they'll ever do that to make us safer out there, hell no! It will cost too much m oney and slow down the entire country. Economics is more important than human life, period.

Were contract pilots used? How did this affect the situation? who authorized them? (KPWK accident)

Contract pilots....salary full-time pilots..........SAME SIM SCHOOLS, SAME PROCEDURES!!!!! No factor.

Theres lots of factors, but I'd sure be pissed if I was this guy also. He's lucky to be alive, unlike his 4 friends and the pilots. While Im not for ludicrous lawsuits - Id sure like to know what happened here, not just "it was an accident"

I'd be pissed too, but I would sue the pilots for making a stupid decision. Not a tire company or an aircraft design that has been around since the 1950's. If that fool thinks the tires were defective, he should never get in a car again thinking he may die, because the tire COULD be defective.

Aborting after V1, which they did, is pilot error. No passing judgement, it is what it is.

 

[bizjet800]

We can all MMQB this situation, bottom line, none of us were there and we can all speculate on what should have been done. Sure, we can all read the reports and opinions for months to come, but this all happened in the time it took to strike a few keystrokes. Perhaps they thought it was a catastrophic engine failure or TR deployment--we'll never know!

Lets look at the the Concorde accident--what if they aborted and half the people died? We all would have said the pilots should have continued. Well, they did continue and ALL onboard died. No one can expect us to make split second decisions and then scour over them for years and figuring out we made the wrong one!

As for the lawsuit, you knew it was coming. We can all tell Barker to stick to lousy music and fish tacos, but our families would do the same! There are good things and there are bad things about lawsuits. Someone said let's do it the "Indonesian Way!" Are you kidding? I want my butt to be worth much more than $500. How much will companies cut corners when they only have to pay for $500 for each dead body? Is that the life and death decision you want your doctor and/or hospital to make when your doctor is late for his tennis game? Is our system perfect? Not exactly. We're not talking about using the wrong runway or a doctor removing the wrong lung during a transplant! Just my two cents!

 

[Fly91]

Lets look at the the Concorde accident--what if they aborted and half the people died? We all would have said the pilots should have continued. Well, they did continue and ALL onboard died. No one can expect us to make split second decisions and then scour over them for years and figuring out we made the wrong one!

They know the tire debris flew into the fuel tanks and ignited the fuel, everyone was saying, all the MNQB said they should have titanium shielding under the wings of all planes right above the tires so that never happens. I have to agree, but its never going to happen. Its too expensive. Its all about money!

They had to take it into the air, they were almost at rotation speed, they probably had 1,000 feet of runway remianing.

Someone said let's do it the "Indonesian Way!" Are you kidding? I want my butt to be worth much more than $500. How much will companies cut corners when they only have to pay for $500 for each dead body?

We have the FAA/DOT/NTSB to make flying safe for us. I was just saying that if monetary awards were kept to a minimum we wouldn't have bullsh1t lawsuits like this one.

I am all for Travis suing the insurance companies of the charter companies, no problem. But GY and Bombardier, thats pathetic. They are just doing it hoping for a settlement that they DO NOT deserve. They only deserve any monetary awards from the charter operators insurance companies.

Is that the life and death decision you want your doctor and/or hospital to make when your doctor is late for his tennis game?

I'm just talking about flying accidents. If a pilot is also onboard, they won't purposely make a stupid decision like a doctor choosing tennis over his patient. The pilot is in the plane too and whatever happens, its their azz too.

 

[Andy Neill]

We should adopt laws from other countries regarding accidental death. $500 maximum award per person, like they have in some Indonesian countries.

From what I have observed, human life is worth about $500,000 in the US. That is, if a product improvement will save an expected 10 lives, a company will often be willing to spend $5 million to implement the change. If not, the company will roll the dice and assume the risk.

We often hear remarks like, "If they could have saved just one life, it would have been worth all the money in the world." This does not seem born out in practice, however.

 

[metrodriver]

Indonesian countries???? Which ones are that to be exact?

 

[lawfly]

Here's a link to the preliminary NTSB report.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=DCA08MA098&rpt=p
According to the prelim, "at about 136 knots, the crew attempted to reject the takeoff". Incidentally, the captain had 3140 tt and 35 in type, per the prelim. The report does have some (preliminary) details about the condition of some of the relevant components as found at the wreckage site.
I have not seen the complaint, but the $25k figure is simply a threshold for the unlimited jurisdiction of the state superior court in California. The actual amount is not stated in personal injury or wrongful death suits; only that the amount sought exceeds the jurisdictional threshold. I'm not commenting yet on the cause of this unfortunate crash or on the litigation, only passing along this info. As many have posted, it is still early in the investigative (and litigation) process. Fly safe.

 

[bizjet800]

Indonesian countries???? Which ones are that to be exact?

You know--like China, Tibet, Madagascar and Norway!

Or did he mean counties?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

The country of Jakarta is not very litigation friendly.

 

[Fly91]

Indonesian countries???? Which ones are that to be exact?

Guess I should have said "region." In talking with a friend about this Lear 60 crash and the lawsuits that have been filed, he explained to me some of the laws over there. He used to own a Lear 25 in Indonesia for air ambulance work years ago and flew all over that region. He was telling me how annual insurance over there, right now, is like $7,000. Compared to like $28,000 annually here for a Lear 25 doing air ambulance.

The huge difference in premiums is all about the personal injury and liability limits the insurance company will be on the hook for. Knowing they don't have to pay out more than $500 per person, the rates are dirt cheap.

 

[siucavflight]

Well regardless of what the FAA finds as the cause, one thing is for sure, Travis and the other passengers are not to blame. And I dont really feel that them suing is unjustified, I believe that most of us would do the same thing.

 

[Fly91]

Well regardless of what the FAA finds as the cause, one thing is for sure, Travis and the other passengers are not to blame. And I dont really feel that them suing is unjustified, I believe that most of us would do the same thing.

Agreed, they should sue, but I'd be suing the crew only, not the tire company and aircraft manufacturer, thats just for greedy dirtbags that want a payday. The liability limits of those charter operators are probably close to $100 million combined, isn't that enough for that idiot. lTravis is trying to get a big check at the expense of his dead friends and co-workers. The American way.

Yet, he'll keep flying on planes with the same systems and good ole' Good Year tires.

Travis = dirtbag Along with anyone else who sues the manufacturer and/or GY.

 

[siucavflight]

You are right Fly91, very good points.

 

[Freight Dog]

Agreed, they should sue, but I'd be suing the crew only, not the tire company and aircraft manufacturer, thats just for greedy dirtbags that want a payday. The liability limits of those charter operators are probably close to $100 million combined, isn't that enough for that idiot. lTravis is trying to get a big check at the expense of his dead friends and co-workers. The American way.

Yet, he'll keep flying on planes with the same systems and good ole' Good Year tires.

Travis = dirtbag Along with anyone else who sues the manufacturer and/or GY.

Put yourself in his Travis' situation. Would you tell your counsel that you DO NOT want to sue Bombardier or GY, or would you let the shyster do the shyster work for the best possible outcome?

Another question... they're suing the pilots. Is it all insurance through the charter company, or are they suing the pilots' estates as well?

 

[siucavflight]

Put yourself in his Travis' situation. Would you tell your counsel that you DO NOT want to sue Bombardier or GY, or would you let the shyster do the shyster work for the best possible outcome?

Another question... they're suing the pilots. Is it all insurance through the charter company, or are they suing the pilots' estates as well?

Yes, everyone here would be suing everyone, the same as Travis is doing.

 

[Fly91]

Put yourself in his Travis' situation. Would you tell your counsel that you DO NOT want to sue Bombardier or GY, or would you let the shyster do the shyster work for the best possible outcome?

Yes, I would tell them to just sue the people who are responsible, the crew. Why sue a manufacturer thats been making the Lear since the 1950's, and that exact landing gear and braking system since the 1950's???? It would make me look like a greedy piece of sh%t. I don't want people thinking that about me. Money is not bringing anyone back from the dead or healing scars, so why "sue everybody"??? I'll tell you why people do it....GREED!!!! Large money awards from big companies like that change NOTHING anyway!

I know a family that got a $1.9 million settlement from Chrysler Corp. when I was in high school. The floorboards of their 6 month old Jeep started to rust out and fall apart. They had two kids under the age of 4 yrs. They sued because they said it put their children in danger. Chrysler actually settled out of court with these scumbags. Floorboards are the same, Chrysler changed nothing, they just didn't want the bad press of a lawsuit. Is that fair, hell no!

Another question... they're suing the pilots. Is it all insurance through the charter company, or are they suing the pilots' estates as well?

I don't know the details of the claims in the suit. He should only sue the charter operators' insurance companies who insured these pilots to fly Part 135 for those operators. Human negligence is all they truly have here, and they are most likely going to rule this "pilot error". NOT 100% positive yet, but its sure looking like that. What else is there???? A bad leanding gear design, thats just comical. If thats the findings, they need to ground every plane on earth. A bad set of tires, on both sides of the plane...more comical. If thats the findings, they need to ground every aircraft on earth using GY tires and inspect them all before they can fly again.

 

[Fly91]

Yes, everyone here would be suing everyone, the same as Travis is doing.

Speak for yourself man, I wouldn't be suing everybody.

I wouldn't want to contribute to one of the downfalls of this country. Don't want to be part of what jacks insurance premiums up so high that an airplane part costs 30 times what its worth. Or have to make GY, a great American company have to raise their prices or get bad press for no reason. Or have to see a great landing gear/braking system get trashed, one that has been operating beautifully since the 1950's on 7 different jets.

I'm not that kind of cheesedick. Travis is sure to get a few million $$$ from those insurance companies of the 135 operators in this case.....what the hell more does that already rich guy need????? And again, cash doesn't bring back the dead. That proves....GREED RULES!!!!!