Tranny ALPA MEC - Dragging their feet

[Empennage]

Our attorneys disagree with that one. Most scenarios that mirror recent arbitration decisions of close to relative seniority, then adjusting slightly for pay rate differences and adjust more heavily for retirements being heavily weighted on the SWA side come pretty close to a Date of Hire solution for our F/O's, which is a 12-18% loss of relative seniority, but better than the 26-34% this deal gives them.

Your attorneys may be saying something different, but all we can go by is the counsel we are being given which doesn't say anything close to "most AAI F/O's are on the bottom".

Just so you understand where JT and others are coming from.

Lear you need to add in the difference in staffing models (additional aai pilots) and an offset due to retirements.

Either way it is a moot point as all this is hypothectical.

 

[Lear70]

I mentioned the retirements, and staffing models haven't really come into play in arbitrator's decisions, although they might come into play afterwards in the integration talks per the Process Agreement.

Red, you're right, it's a big decision, and who knows what gets lost in the shuffle. Certainly our CA protections are nowhere NEAR as high as they are now, although I have my own thoughts on the ATL "protections", such as they are in SL9, but it's all hypothetical at this point.

Just hoping that the protections really DO materialize in our LoA and 4-party agreement, so we don't have to consider heading down that road... It's really up to GK what happens from here... as it always has been.

 

[Flycatcher99]

Would you or anyone really be that mad if you got only a 10% bump in seniority vs a 20+% bump overnight on the backs of the trannies? Think how long it took to get every 10% increase prior to this. Think of this only in terms of the deal you are getting not what someone else is, i.e. their pay raise. Just a question.

Again, I don't know where folks are getting this 20% seniority bump for SWA guys. I am getting 9%. Some guys are getting less. Even the SWA captains above all AAI guys are getting far less, like 6% or less. The bottom SWA FO is getting in the same neighborhood as I am, about 9%.

If you look at it from DOH, it's DOH-4 for some AAI folk, and much less, DOH-2 for many others. I know this will rub some here the wrong way, but that is not unreasonable. We have captains with 12 years getting mixed in with AAI guys with 14 years seniority. I don't know very many self-respecting pilots in this industry that would say that 14 years at Air Tran is the equivalent career-wise as 12 years at SWA. And an Air Tran captain with seven years under his belt at his company may feel hosed with his seniority being paired up with a four-year SWA FO, but getting that minimum $230,000/year paycheck ought to silence quite a bit of the angst, especially when he will be flying often with an FO who is his senior, and yet cannot foresee upgrading in the next few years, or possibly the next decade. And if it doesn't silence his angst, well, the AAI captain can choose quality of life, and go back to a top seniority FO, and still make more money (and have way better benefits) than he had at Air Tran. So he can choose pay or quality of life. SWA FOs cannot.

 

[GuppyWN]

I'm a DOH -2 guy and I get 8% - in 9 ********************ing years.

Until then I see every Airtran 717 pilot flying in his little bubble in OAK, LAS, DAL, HOU, MDW flying the same schedule he is now - with an extra $70k/yr in boat payments. I see the ATL trannies doing EXACTLY what they do today, with an extra $70k in boat payments.

So I see the trannies getting QOL AND pay.... until 2020.

Gup

 

[greenpilot]

Lear the latest Bloch ruling on masaba Pinnacle award Bloch did look at the staffing of each airline. I don't know if it will help us or hurt us but he does look at it.

 

[Ty Webb]

I'm a DOH -2 guy and I get 8% - in 9 ********************ing years.

Until then I see every Airtran 717 pilot flying in his little bubble in OAK, LAS, DAL, HOU, MDW flying the same schedule he is now - with an extra $70k/yr in boat payments. I see the ATL trannies doing EXACTLY what they do today, with an extra $70k in boat payments.

So I see the trannies getting QOL AND pay.... until 2020.

Gup

Gup, you do realize that 40% of our pilots will be displaced from the base they have held their entire career, right?

And, once displaced from ATL, we will not have the seniority to hold a line or even a domicile (or maybe even our seat) for at least 4 years, maybe 10?

If I offered you $50K a year to make a two-leg commute to a reserve line in various junior bases, would you take it? If so, we need to talk, because have I got a deal for the Gup! imp:

 

[Lear70]

Lear the latest Bloch ruling on masaba Pinnacle award Bloch did look at the staffing of each airline. I don't know if it will help us or hurt us but he does look at it.

He quoted it, as well as quoting the better pay at MSA and PCL from Colgan...

Then he slotted the Colgan Captains right in with everyone else in a ratio pretty close to relative.

He paid it lip service, basically, as he did pay rates. The actual list didn't move very much from a standpoint of a mix of relative and DoH. The PCL and MSA guys are pretty torqued about it...

 

[Lear70]

Gup, you do realize that 40% of our pilots will be displaced from the base they have held their entire career, right?

It might be more displacements than that.

Read Par I.2 of Side Letter 9 and tell me how many PILOTS they have to base in ATL and WHEN they have to open an ATL domicile for the SWA side of our AAI transitioned pilots.

Then read Paragraphs F.1 and F.2 and tell me where you'll go if you bid into (or get displaced into) Southwest training as a 737 pilot (CA or FO) if there are no ATL vacancies when you come out of training because they haven't yet opened an ATL base on the SWA side of the "fence".

 

[Ty Webb]

It might be more displacements than that.

Read Par I.2 of Side Letter 9 and tell me how many PILOTS they have to base in ATL and WHEN they have to open an ATL domicile for the SWA side of our AAI transitioned pilots.

Then read Paragraphs F.1 and F.2 and tell me where you'll go if you bid into (or get displaced into) Southwest training as a 737 pilot (CA or FO) if there are no ATL vacancies when you come out of training because they haven't yet opened an ATL base on the SWA side of the "fence".

I'm trying not to ruin my evening, so how about a guess:


. . . . . East Purgatory, NJ?

 

[Full of LUV]

I'm a DOH -2 guy and I get 8% - in 9 ********************ing years.

Until then I see every Airtran 717 pilot flying in his little bubble in OAK, LAS, DAL, HOU, MDW flying the same schedule he is now - with an extra $70k/yr in boat payments. I see the ATL trannies doing EXACTLY what they do today, with an extra $70k in boat payments.

So I see the trannies getting QOL AND pay.... until 2020.

Gup

Gup,
Exactly, this is why SWAPA should have lobbied GK for contract enhancements (NEW JOINT CONTRACT) to even get the merger going, long before the SLI as the way DALPA did, that way the pilots of SWAPA don't get jealous over AAI's payraise to PAR, now SWAPA just wants enhancements off the backs of AAI and not from the company.
This will go down as the chief mistake that causes most of the disdain between the two pilot groups.....
LUV