Tranny ALPA MEC - Dragging their feet

[dicko]

I can say this. If I was in your captains' shoes, I'd be showing my wife the numbers and telling her we're moving to BWI (or MDW or HOU or etc.). Sitting reserve at SWA at a cool $230,000, plus picking up out of give-away or open time, is not a bad gig, especially if you live in base. It actually goes senior when we cycle through the lean flying times.

Explain how you move to a base to sit reserve when you will always be the most junior reserve in the system ? To keep the seat you have to continuously move bases.

Honest question. Answer assuming a downgrade for 15 years is not going to happen please.

 

[Flycatcher99]

Explain how you move to a base to sit reserve when you will always be the most junior reserve in the system ? To keep the seat you have to continuously move bases.

Honest question. Answer assuming a downgrade for 15 years is not going to happen please.

That's a good point. Hopefully, you can move to a junior captain base, and it stays junior, preventing displacement. It is possible to get displaced here, especially if you choose a more senior captain base. (We have had quite a few MCO captains displaced up to BWI.)

Of course, this is assuming we do not see a net reduction in captains. If we do, the junior AAI captain can simply go back to FO in his base, if there is an increase in FOs on that vacancy bid. When the captain slots return, AAI guys get dibs over SWA guys. It's possible he could get displaced into an FO slot and then get recalled back to captain and never leave the same base.

 

[Ty Webb]

If you guys have that many commuters, then you can't really complain about being dealt a commute to SWA bases.

That would make sense, except that many of us went to AirTran because Atlanta was convenient to where we live. I live in the same zip code I did when I was hired ten years ago, and there are a lot of direct flights to ATL, and it's close enough to drive, even. We have moved extended family here, we have invested in this area . . . . I'm way past the point in my life of moving to make more money.

(Example: true story...When my grandmother passed away, I asked for some time off from a trip to attend the funeral. I not only got the time off, I got it off with pay, not out of my sick bank, and the chief pilots' office travelled myself, my wife, and my kids to and from the funeral, space positive. I challenge you to name another airline that would do that.)

I agree, that's very nice. We actually have paid bereavement for grandparents, as well, and they will positive space you if you ask. This company used to do many things like that for us, but it all changed about 5 or 6 years ago, but that's another story. We are ALL definitely looking forward to working for a company that values its employees. We deliver, and will deliver even harder with just a little encouragement (instead of the crew floggings we're accustomed to).

I can say this. If I was in your captains' shoes, I'd be showing my wife the numbers and telling her we're moving to BWI (or MDW or HOU or etc.). Sitting reserve at SWA at a cool $230,000, plus picking up out of give-away or open time, is not a bad gig, especially if you live in base. It actually goes senior when we cycle through the lean flying times.

Heh-heh . . . Yeah, we've had that converstaion . . .that ain't gonna work for now, as I mentioned. Maybe when our youngest graduates H.S. in 7 years.

So, I've answered your question. How would you feel if you had been a SWA FO for the last 7 to 10 years, waited patiently for organic growth to resume after a three-year hiatus, and then were told your airline was going to grow by purchasing a smaller competitor, and then finally found out that all the captains at that competitor were going to come in and assume all the captain spots of the entire growth by acquisition, even sitting junior to you on that list?

You would not be pleased.

I do appreciate your comments. I don't believe that I would feel the same way, necessarily, but my situation and motivations may be different than yours. I was happy doing what I was doing, and don't believe the extra money is worth the tradeoff of commuting to a junior base to sit reserve, but .I can appreciate your position, to be sure.

In any event, I am looking froward to putting all this behind us, and am looking forward to getting back in the air.

YEAH, BABY!

Regards,
Ty

 

[GuppyWN]

Explain how you move to a base to sit reserve when you will always be the most junior reserve in the system ? To keep the seat you have to continuously move bases.

Honest question. Answer assuming a downgrade for 15 years is not going to happen please.

If the 717 leaves ATL it will be AAI crews flying them for at least 3 years and then ONLY IF there is a vacancy a WN pilot can have it. So I could see a "junior" AAI captain with, say, 6 years on property driving to work in Dallas sitting #1 on the 717 getting every holiday and weekend off.........

Making $209/hr until at least 2020!

Gup

 

[GuppyWN]

In any event, I am looking froward to putting all this behind us, and am looking forward to getting back in the air.

YEAH, BABY!

Regards,
Ty

No ********************.

Gup

 

[Lear70]

If the 717 leaves ATL it will be AAI crews flying them for at least 3 years and then ONLY IF there is a vacancy a WN pilot can have it. So I could see a "junior" AAI captain with, say, 6 years on property driving to work in Dallas sitting #1 on the 717 getting every holiday and weekend off.........

Making $209/hr until at least 2020!

Gup

Sounds like one of our MC members...

If you guys have that many commuters, then you can't really complain about being dealt a commute to SWA bases.

Well, since it's OUR lives that are changing, I think I'll complain how I want. It's FlightInfo, after all...

In all seriousness, yes I'll be commuting. But it's a big difference commuting to whatever trips you want bidding in the top of the base to commuting 4-6 hours each way to sit reserve in a base you never wanted to be in.

The money helps, and it sounds like it's your primary focus, but it's not mine.

 

[Flycatcher99]

Absolutely, complain away. I didn't mean it wasn't your right. I just meant to give perspective.

Gup is right, tho, that 717 drivers will get better seniority than those in the 737. And Ive been thinking that 717s will be in demand in DAL and HOU.

 

[greenpilot]

I am a senior fo at airtran. I get my top 10 choice of lines in atl. I will leave atl if mdw becomes available. I would bet all the mke pilots will take mdw. We have a ton of pilots who live in the NE they will take a bwi base. Our texas boys will bid hou or dal if they can hold it. the ones out west will take las phx or oak. mco guys will want to stay in mco.
there will be those who will commute just to hold a line. In my experience reserve where you live is always better then the stress of commuting.
If you do get kicked out of ATL you can always pick up open flying in ATL.

 

[27 driver]

If the 717 leaves ATL it will be AAI crews flying them for at least 3 years and then ONLY IF there is a vacancy a WN pilot can have it. So I could see a "junior" AAI captain with, say, 6 years on property driving to work in Dallas sitting #1 on the 717 getting every holiday and weekend off.........

Making $209/hr until at least 2020!

Gup

GUP,
Do you know something we don't about the 717 bases? Inquiry minds want to know.

 

[scoreboardII]

Guys, really, complain all you want. It's good for the soul, but If I was told I had to commute but expect to make an extra $70,000/yr to do it, I'm buying first class seats there and back and stay at the Hyatt. You'd still put money in the bank.

Nobody is talking anything about 717 basing, the info flow has stopped pending MEC.

 

[dicko]

That's a good point. Hopefully, you can move to a junior captain base, and it stays junior, preventing displacement. It is possible to get displaced here, especially if you choose a more senior captain base. (We have had quite a few MCO captains displaced up to BWI.)

Of course, this is assuming we do not see a net reduction in captains. If we do, the junior AAI captain can simply go back to FO in his base, if there is an increase in FOs on that vacancy bid. When the captain slots return, AAI guys get dibs over SWA guys. It's possible he could get displaced into an FO slot and then get recalled back to captain and never leave the same base.

Thanks FC99,

Still trying to wrap my head around it all. A new system under a new set of circumstances.

I commuted for 8 years and moved to the ATL. I'm pretty happy here and hate commuting. But, I do have choices and none of them really suck.

I appreciate the point of view and the effort.

Cheers

 

[bravodude]

Gup, you do realize that 40% of our pilots will be displaced from the base they have held their entire career, right?

And, once displaced from ATL, we will not have the seniority to hold a line or even a domicile (or maybe even our seat) for at least 4 years, maybe 10?

If I offered you $50K a year to make a two-leg commute to a reserve line in various junior bases, would you take it? If so, we need to talk, because have I got a deal for the Gup! imp:

Should I take this to mean that you have no problem keeping your pay and work rules, If so lets send this straight up the chain to GK Im sure he would be really excited.

 

[Lear70]

Absolutely, complain away. I didn't mean it wasn't your right. I just meant to give perspective.

And you did... as did others, and I appreciate it, truly.

I talk to a few of my SWA buddies over there on a regular basis. One of them is on here and he is pretty sure he's going to vote No. There's lots of things he doesn't like, pay rates and fences aren't among them, there are other gotchas in SL9 he just doesn't want to see materialize at SWA.

I appreciate his viewpoints as well as yours; they let me see other angles of things, and I think that's the big key for not getting too angry about whatever happens with this. We may not like the way it shakes up in the short term, but in the long term, life goes on, we do our jobs, we have a good time, we don't take it out on each other, and we go home to our families.

That's about as good as I can do as far as my small part is concerned. Hoping you guys do the same. If so, I know we're all going to be OK. Ya'll have a good weekend out there. :beer:

 

[CMonBoard]

Should I take this to mean that you have no problem keeping your pay and work rules, If so lets send this straight up the chain to GK Im sure he would be really excited.

My understanding is that was suggested to be that way for one year. And the approximately $100 mln/year savings given to the WN pilots affected by a "fair" integration. It was summarily dismissed as not good enough.

This cake needs more time in the oven.

 

[Quiet Flight]

Evidently the company is quite upset with how the ALPA ATN-MEC is continually dragging their feet with the Agreement in Principle.

So now SWA is pretty pissed.

Bump...

 

[redflyer65]

Only time will tell...oh wait.

 

[redflyer65]

Suspended indefinitely now. What?

 

[4day]

Suspended indefinitely now. What?

That's your executive blog wording. Of course you are going to try and make ALPA look bad. I really don't blame SWAPA. ALPA (the MEC) is a mess and my trust in them is long gone. Don't know where this is going to go but after hearing about the reaction from some SW FO's wanting MORE after 1/2 of our pilots are stapled and shut down from upgrade till 2020 I have leaned towards arbitration. The SWA fantasy island needs get a good b!tch slap of reality. I am to junior for arbitration to affect me much but I might get some gratification on a arbitrators ruling. Hope it gets done soon. After it does hope we all can live with it and move on. Any disrespect on the line will result in a through hotel van beating

 

[redflyer65]

That's your executive blog wording. Of course you are going to try and make ALPA look bad. I really don't blame SWAPA. ALPA (the MEC) is a mess and my trust in them is long gone. Don't know where this is going to go but after hearing about the reaction from some SW FO's wanting MORE after 1/2 of our pilots are stapled and shut down from upgrade till 2020 I have leaned towards arbitration. The SWA fantasy island needs get a good b!tch slap of reality. I am to junior for arbitration to affect me much but I might get some gratification on a arbitrators ruling. Hope it gets done soon. After it does hope we all can live with it and move on. Any disrespect on the line will result in a through hotel van beating

I actually agree with most of what you have to say here. ALPA is a mess, and it doesn't take SWAPA to point that out..they do that on their own.

The whole deal about the senior SW FO's wanting more is weak, and unfounded. They need to look at the whole deal and move forward. I think most on the SW side are pretty well grounded and ready to vote this in and move on. Will everbody be happy? No, but that's the way it goes.

We aren't afraid of Arby, but the outcome for BOTH sides could turn out to be a steaming turd.

 

[maru657]

I'm guessing that the ALPA, MEC at AT may be aiming towards arbitration. The old school system of date of hire with seat and base protection is probably unacceptable to some parties here leaving arbitration as the only recourse.