Training Programs

[bobbysamd]

College

I don't have a degree . . . .

The first, and most important, piece of advice:

Go to an accredited college. Earn a four-year degree.

Despite discussion to the contrary, a college education will stand you in good stead no matter what you decide. Going to college should be a higher priority right now than deciding which way to proceed for a flying career.

 

[350DRIVER]

bobby,

A good majority of pilots who do not have the degree (4 year) upon completion of this program will complete it online via a correspondence course with an accredited university/college while they are flying the line. It is better to kill two birds with one stone in my opinion. . Finishing up the degree makes much more sense to do it this way versus the other way around since in reality upon completion of the 19 month program you will have the two year degree, all licenses/ratings needed, etc, all that one now needs to do is "finish up". . Most of the programs that these pilots are using to finish up the 4 - year degree will also give you X amount of credit hours for your licenses/ratings, flight hours, and your "work experience". You are wasting absolutely no time by going this route and it is also the most convenient in my opinion which makes much more sense from my perspective. Either way will work but if you want to fly sooner than later then this is the way that I would go if I were you.

3 5 0

 

[bobbysamd]

Accelerated college attendance

I recommend finishing college as soon as possible for young pilots for a couple of reasons. For one thing, you are still in school mode and study mode after finishing high school. The longer you are away from school, the harder it is to get back into that mode. I learned that first-hand after starting paralegal school twenty-one years after my last college class.

The other reason is once you start working it's hard to go back to school, especially via correspondence courses or distance learning. People always say they'll go back to school but keep pushing it off. I feel it's better to get college out of the way, have the degree in hand, and then concentrate on flying, without the college worry in the back of your mind.

High school kids who are really organized can plan ahead and finish college in three years or less. They could go to summer school so they graduate in January instead of June. Upon graduation, they could enter college as first-semester/quarter freshman. Go to summer school and by the end of the fall they could complete close to a full year's work. Keep up the plan and be finished in three years, graduating before they are twenty-two. Kids who can take AP courses in high school would really have it made because some of these courses earn college credits.

I realize this plan is ambitious (and tedious), but it's doable, and you don't necessarily have to be an Einstein to do it. I have heard of college athletes (jocks) who graduate in three years by going to summer school. I realize that going to summer school sucks - I've done it and it does suck - but it may be worth it in the long run for completing college faster.

Just a little more food for thought on an important issue.

 

[Jetter2]

My parents are going to pay $40k for my college. Now I can spend ALL of that at ATP, or I can spend all of that on college.

My plan:
Finish up HS this spring
Summer of 05: Start taking classes at Jr. College, get that much farther ahead. Go to Summer Semester, Fall, Spring, and Summer semester, so by fall of 06' I got my 2 years of Jr. College out of the way.

Join up with ATP and (hopefully, hopefully!!) land a job with them, so I can build time.

If I can get on with some regional carrier, thad' just seal the deal! Regional Pilots seem to average about two weeks off a month. With a flight line time of 72hrs, that should leave time for me to squeeze in time for the last two years of my degree.

 

[labbats]

How will you pay for that degree on $20k a year?

I'd consider some kind of online degree program. But the community college is a wise move. I got a lot of tough classes done for cheap that way, and eventually still earned a Big Ten degree just like everyone else who went there from day one.

 

[Jetter2]

How will you pay for that degree on $20k a year?

Our Community College is only about $1000/semester.

I make that in a month at my current job. Pay off my my PPL, and save for college!

 

[The_Russian]

350,

Everything you say about MAPD is the same sh!t I say about GIA. You whine about 250 hr. pilots in a turboprop thats easier to fly than a seminole, while your heavenly MAPD grads only have 50 hours more and are going into a jet.

Don't try to BS anyone by telling them that 300 hr pilots from your perfect school "don't need a babysitter". At least 90% of them will require instruction in their airmanship and knowledge for some time after IOE is completed.

Have you shared the flight deck with a MAPD grad? I didn't think so... You are forming opinions without any form of substance or evidence to back up your statements.

I don't ever want to hear you talk sh!t again about GIA grads or their employees. I don't have a problem with MAPD grads because they are just like GIA grads. Both are low time and in a good position to begin their careers.


Jetter,

Sorry to hijack your thread. Everyone on this forum is segregated by the different routes they took to get where they are, or where they are going.

My suggestion:
1. Go to college.
2. Fly while in college
3. Pick your next move without listening to anyones opinions. It doesn't matter how you build your time as long as YOU put your all into it. GIA, MAPD, FlightSafety, Comair, Pan Am, Ari Ben, ATP, PFT, FAA, your FBO, ERAU, FIT, RAA......... They are all good flight schools if you work hard.

SSDA - Same Sh!t, Different Airport.

 

[pilotyip]

College not necessary

College degree is not necessary to make $100K/yr in the flying business. This following example in the model of success in pursing flying job. We just hired a 20 year old pilot, 1 year of on-line college credit completed, started working the ramp pumping gas in high school, got hired hauling cargo in SA-227 as an F/O, at 18, got promoted to 208 Capt at age 20, he has 1600 TT, 1100 MEL, 350 Turbine PIC, 1450 total turbine, he is starting as a DA-20 F/O at S33K, he will be a DA-20 Capt the day he turns 23, he feels he will have his degree completed by the time he is 25 or 26 years old. At that time he should have 5200 TT, 4700 MEL, 5050 Turbine, 3200 hours 121 time, 1200 121 Turbo Jet PIC. He will have his on-line BS degree in Aviation Management, and no debt. He will be interviewing with the 4 or 5 year traditional college graduate for his first airline job, The traditional 4 yr degree guy who has TT 1200 350 MEL 15 Turbine. Who is the more competitive? As I have posted before you can fly full time and do your degree on the side on-line, but you can not be a full time on-campus student and build Turbo Jet PIC. Airline jobs go to those with Part 121 Turbo Jet PIC time in the 1,000's of hours, the degree is not needed, and I am talking about great jobs at AirTran, Spirit and Jet blue. Airlines that do not let the degree thing get in the way of picking up a highly qualified pilot. I have seen it happen too many times. Yes but you may not get to interview at UPS, but then again lots of college degreed guys never getteh chance either.

 

[350DRIVER]

(edited)

The_Russian,

The only difference is that MAPD grads "earn" the job by the time they get to the line, you guys at GIA "whored" yourselves out and bought/rented that seat in a 1900, big big difference my friend. Once your 250 hours of "seat renting" time is up you are then kicked to the curb since fool #2 is ready to come in with a blank check in hand. You will be stuck regional X for many years, there is a reason that only a "few" select regionals will accept you guys after you are done renting the seat out in the 1900. Comair, ASA, XJT, Skywest, etc, would laugh at you so enjoy Peanuckle for many years...

Don't try to BS anyone by telling them that 300 hr pilots from your perfect school "don't need a babysitter".

Actually I have flown with more than a few of these guys, know check airman's over at Mesa that have said nothing but good things about these guys, etc, so you are way off my friend.


Why such a bitter attitude??....


Way to hijack a thread.....

Jetter,

bottom line is stay far away from Gulfstream, very easy way to ruin your career by "buying" or "renting" the right seat of a 1900 out. . This practice will come back and haunt you one day down the line. Please do a GIA search, plenty of "good" information regarding this program on here.


you have been warned....

bobby and all others will say the same thing....


3 5 0

 

[OneBadLT123]

Saint Cloud State University has a program. Can't say if it is good or bad, but thus far my experience has been good. You get the exelent ground training of a 141 combined with the flexibility of a 61 flight part. Aircraft prices are dirt cheap (all flight is under $30k if you work your ass off and make the times which are reasonable).

The college is a normal state college so you will have to take non-flight courses and the place isn't a sausage fest (teaching department is pretty big here sooooooo ). If you are willing to work, you can do it in 3 years with all the flight ratings.

You can also take out student loans and they have a form that allows you to use the flight costs as part of the FASFA aid needed form.

neat, thats where i am attending this fall...
is that where you currently attend?
ohh and i also agree on it not being a sausage fest, when i was up there i was surprised...

 

[The_Russian]

If I saw you on the ramp in Miami, you wouldn't talk to me like that. You are just a kid. You are only 2 years older than me. You know nothing, and you will never know everything like you think you do already.

You will be stuck regional X for many years, there is a reason that only a "few" select regionals will accept you after you are done renting the seat out in the 1900. Comair, ASA, XJT, Skywest, etc, would laugh at you so enjoy Peanuckle for many years...

All regionals that our grads applied to have our pilots working for them. A bunch of our guys just went to XJT. My friend was just hired by ASA last week. PSA just took 20 of our guys. Colgan interviewed 19 last week. You say sh!t and you don't even know the truth. I don't know if anyone got hired by skywest, but I'll put a resume in just to p!ss you off. And when I get hired because of all of the great 121 exp. I have, you'll be the first to hear. And I'm not going to Airlink.

To put the icing on the cake once your 250 hours of "seat renting" time is up you are then kicked to the curb since whore #2 is ready to come in with a blank check.

It is an educational/work experience program.

MAPD grads "earn" the job by the time they get to the line

Define "earn" with respect to flight training at MAPD as opposed to other schools.

Reviewing the program at MAPD with a friend that went through the program and looking on the MAPD website, the only difference between GIA and MAPD is an interview. Paying for an interview is not honorable either if we put this in your eyes.

Actually I have flown with more than a few of these guys, know check airman's over at Mesa that have said nothing but good things about these guys, etc, so you are way off my friend.

I never said that they were bad pilots. You seem to think that they are really good. In fact, why have Captains in the planes when a MAPD grad is scheduled, it would save the airline money. I seem to remember one of the duties of the Captain being: Assists the Chief pilot in monitoring and furthering the progress of the Second In Command.

Im sure they are all great pilots. No different from GIA guys. Both schools have guys who can't make it and they are booted. It seems that you are a very one-sided person, who is stubborn with a whole lot of ignorance. Oh, and you also fail to be objective.

I surely don't and I don't treat Mesa pilots any different than any other regional pilot.

So, you treat all pilots like you treat GIA guys.

Have you shared the flight deck with a MAPD grad?

Not yet, but I would love to.

Way to hijack a thread.....

Hmmmm..... look at this......

labbats,

It is better to sometimes keep your mouth shut when you don't have a clue about what you are talking about.

350.........SLAP

I read your post prior to editing.

 

[The_Russian]

more........

bottom line is stay far away from Gulfstream, very easy way to ruin your career by "buying" or "renting" the right seat of a 1900 out.

Thats funny, because all of our pilots who completed the FO program have careers.

Please do a GIA search, plenty of "good" information regarding this program

Most who comment on GIA have never even seen the building. Take it from someone who is there now. No one person on this thread knows what they are talking about when they make negative comments on GIA.

The majority of people that are "against" this practice are those that are "stuck" looking in from the outside who feel that they are owed something by this industry.

How you feel about GIA. You are a hypocrite. Did you think I wouldn't remember your posts from the past year I've been on here. Are you nuts man?

 

[pilotman2105]

As you can see, this is as controversial a topic as anything else on this board.

My suggestion is to get a degree is something other than airplanes, but do the flight training prior/during your college career. Work hard and study hard. And be aware of "get rich quick," "pay for type ratings," and other "seems-too-good-to-be-true" offers.

Saint Cloud State University has a program...

SCSU is a pretty good place. Quality school with a very good FBO at the local airport. Very reasonable prices as well. Definitely worth a look.

Just my $0.02.

 

[bobbysamd]

More misleading anti-college advice

College degree is not necessary to make $100K/yr in the flying business. This following example in the model of success in pursing flying job. We just hired a 20 year old pilot, 1 year of on-line college credit completed, started working the ramp pumping gas in high school, got hired hauling cargo in SA-227 as an F/O, at 18, got promoted to 208 Capt at age 20, he has 1600 TT, 1100 MEL, 350 Turbine PIC, 1450 total turbine, he is starting as a DA-20 F/O at S33K . . . . .

No, it is not a model of success. In fact, it is highly atypical, especially in this era of difficult hiring. His new-hire was, at the least, extremely lucky. Most people are not that lucky. Moreover, Yip is, perhaps, a more enlightened pilot recruiter because of the credentials he accepts. Nearly everyone else looks for a degree. Finally, Yip's example makes a very dangerous assumption - that one will actually be hired with only minimal education qualifications. Remember, there are always far more pilots available than there are jobs - with a great many, if the not the majority, of these pilots having some college and/or four-year degrees.

Yip always argues that those who go to college before flying lose time they could otherwise use to build experience. Once more, some places simply will not consider people who do not have degrees - and I'm not talking strictly about the majors.

Let's take Yip's example one more step. Why bother finishing high school? You can solo at 16, get your Private at 17, and your Commercial at 18. So, to get a bigger head start on building hours, drop out of high school as soon as you get your Private and get your G.E.D. Your parents will certainly love that. Then, start building hours for your Commercial. Et cetera. Et cetera. Following that route will make you even more competitive than Yip's new-hire . . .

Yes, it's the hours that matter, nothing else . . . . Once more, not earning the degree puts you at an immediate disadvantage. Ignore advice to the contrary - get your four-year degree.

 

[bobbysamd]

Wait a minute . . ..

Reviewing the program at MAPD with a friend that went through the program and looking on the MAPD website, the only difference between GIA and MAPD is an interview.

That's not accurate. Your friend should know better and so should you. Bottom line, MAPD is a 141 flight school. The only express promise it makes is it will train you for your Commercial-Instrument-Single-Multi. MAPD does not promise or guarantee interviews with Mesa - although it implies strongly that those who follow the program will be interviewed. And, being interviewed does not mean being hired, although MAPD grads have excellent chances of being hired.

Once again, some MAPDers are not interviewed. I had a student while I was there who had managed to antagonize nearly everyone. He was assigned to me because I was a new instructor. In time, he antagonized me. I went to the Chief Instructor but kept it professional, telling him that this student was not scheduling with me as he was supposed to and was not meeting his deadlines. The Chief Instructor finally told me that there was no way he could send this person to Mesa for an interview, but the student would be allowed to finish the program.

MAPD is a flight school. Gulfstream is not a flight school. Big difference between the two.