training prob.....

[svcta]

Hey, gang,
I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this question, but I would like to get some input on how maybe to handle it. Here's the deal:

I'm in training now for a type on a new jet. I've got 0 time in type, but I've got plenty in jets and glass. Everyone else in the class came with a partner and I came alone. I am at this point paired with a guy who has NO real world experience, NO jet time, NO EFIS/Glass/FMS experience. He's just getting an SIC check as part of a job perk where he works(not as a pilot, I might add).

Sim 1 was as one might expect

Sim 2 has me concerned about dragging someone through checklists and flows and missed callouts and helping me keep things going while I try to fly through a check ride.

Sim 3 is this evening and I've pretty much made up my mind that I will say something to my instructor if this doesn't look markedly better at the end.

how long should I wait? They tell me that if he can't hack it for the ride they'll put an instructor with me for that part, but I would like to have flown with someone before going right in to a check ride with them.

In short....help!

 

[Groundpounder]

Talk to your instructor. Keep in mind that you are the customer, and it is the schools job to make sure you have no problems in your training. If you feel like this guy is making your job harder to the point that you can't learn, they need to give you someone else, or even have one of the instructors fly support for you.

Where are you going, if I may ask?

 

[some_dude]

Been there, done that. If you feel that your learning is being affected, by all means say something to the instructor or the program manager. OTOH, for me, having to help someone else sometimes helps me learn.

In my case, I took the checkride with one of their professional right seaters, never flew with him before, and it was unbelievably smooth. A huge contrast with the previous few weeks of struggling with missed calls, missed (or incorrect) checklists, etc.

Hey, gang,
I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this question, but I would like to get some input on how maybe to handle it. Here's the deal:

I'm in training now for a type on a new jet. I've got 0 time in type, but I've got plenty in jets and glass. Everyone else in the class came with a partner and I came alone. I am at this point paired with a guy who has NO real world experience, NO jet time, NO EFIS/Glass/FMS experience. He's just getting an SIC check as part of a job perk where he works(not as a pilot, I might add).

Sim 1 was as one might expect

Sim 2 has me concerned about dragging someone through checklists and flows and missed callouts and helping me keep things going while I try to fly through a check ride.

Sim 3 is this evening and I've pretty much made up my mind that I will say something to my instructor if this doesn't look markedly better at the end.

how long should I wait? They tell me that if he can't hack it for the ride they'll put an instructor with me for that part, but I would like to have flown with someone before going right in to a check ride with them.

In short....help!

 

[G-force]

Handling it

Ask the instructor for someone QUALIFIFIED!!!!

 

[2000flyer]

You're instructor should already be picking up on this. Most take it into consideration when evaluating BOTH pilots and won't (shouldn't) hold it against the stronger pilot. If you feel it's hampering your training, by all means talk to your CSR, instructor, program manager, whomever it takes to get things changed. As someone said, you're the customer and you're there for the most effective, professional training you can receive towards you're type rating.

 

[charter dog]

Follow the above given advice. This happens at allmost every training cycle. While I have no problem with "helping out" during training sessions, on checkride day, It's all about passing! Not that you won't pass while dragging a weak right seater, but it is YOUR checkride. If you feel you need to, I suggest bringing up the subject soon enough that they have enough time to schedule you with the replacement guy for at least one session prior to the checkride or simply schedule an instructor for the ride. The "hired guns" are usually OK, but you won't know 'til you fly together. I don't find this to be a big deal on a recurrent, but a new type is another matter. The instructors and program managers see this every cycle, so they probably won't be too startled by your concerns. Do it quetly and in private for best results!

Best,

 

[Gulfstream 200]

If you are wasting your time or not satisfied for whatever reason --- speak up and have it changed.....like yesterday.

I have dragged someone through a recurrent before, a few days when you already know the airplane is fine....but an initial? -- SEE YA. Let one of the sim center instructors deal with him.

He shouldn't be your problem and any decent program/center manager will make this change ASAP and act professionally in regards to the deadweight you are paired with.

We always try and be nice... but dont forget who's paying who.

:beer:

 

[filejw]

Don't wait do it now.Although I'm an airline type I have seen this scenario before and its not pretty.You can only do so much to help the guy out before your performance is effected.And you being a customer makes it worst. Paying for a poor training environment, no way.

 

[svcta]

Thanks all for the timely and good advice. This is pretty much what I thought, but I guess I have been trying to be too nice and understanding. i've explained a few things along the way while learning new checklists and such that have deepened my understanding of the a/c, but I just don't know this airplane well enough to carry someone in it while flying yet. And it's just a distraction at best, and I find us doing FMS 101 while I'm trying to prepare for an approach or something and then I've got to rush a brief or......blah blah blah. I know what needs to be done. I just feel bad for the guy, 'cause he's really nice and none of this is his fault. I'm not here to help anyone learn but me, though, is the bottom line.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[G4G5]

I had this happen to me with my G4 initial. I was 25 and my partner was 59 he had been flying G2's forever and couldn't understand why he had to go to school and the whole glass cockpit thing was way over the top for him.

What I found works really well is find out his ethnicity and genetic heritage and then give him that best verbal dice and slice you can, "listen you no good XXX, stinkin XXXX, dirty rotten XXX, if you F up that check list 1 more time I am going to kick your XXXX a$s back to that bum F country that your mama came over on a tire tube from.

Needless to say you only have to do this once and they will pair you with their best pilot, to avoid any further difficulties.

All kidding aside, I was too green to know what to do so I just kept plugging away. FSI, lasted 4 sim sessions with father time and then they swapped him out for a Mexican pilot from Toluca. At first I had my apprehensions but the guy turned out to be the best partner I have ever had in a sim. An excellent pilot and a true gentleman. I would speak up, this isn't charity.