Trading "down" from a C340 to a Malibu

[JimG]

Due to various reasons ($4/gal gas being one), I'm contemplating trading my C-340 down to a Piper Malibu, or B36TC.

Things have changed in my business and the C340 is now more airplane than I need and want to pay for, since I'm not traveling the distances I have been, or the wx in the process.....thank God.

The extra engine and 10 ktas isn't worth the price anymore.

The values of a mid-80's Malibu is about equal to my 340, but the owning/operating costs from what I can tell are probably half.

Am I nuts in considering a Malibu?

Or would you go with a tried and true Bonanza (I have over 1000 hours (M35) in) and put up with an oxygen tube up your nose?

 

[Lead Sled]

I've got a couple thousand hours in a C340, but only a few in a Malibu. Personally, I'd never be able to get comfortable in the Malibu or Mirage with their history of engine issues. The Bonanza or (if you didn't need the 5th and 6th seat) even a Mooney 251 or Bravo would get you close to C340 speeds at about 1/3 the overall cost and give you nearly the same capabilities that you have now.

 

[bigD]

I'd think long and hard about buying a Malibu. If the Bonanza fits your mission, I'd buy that over a Malibu in a heartbeat. The Malibu drinks less than your 340, but it might very well make up for that in MX costs. I've known several Malibu pilots, and they all say the plane doesn't do anything well except spend the owner's money.

Also take a look at the Malibu's useful load and make sure it'll carry the number of people you'd like at a distance you'd like. I remember looking at the W&B for a Malibu and thinking that it was a very nice two person airplane.

 

[MauleSkinner]

I know 3 guys who have had to dead-stick a Malibu...are your glider skills current?

Fly safe!

David

 

[pilotmiketx]

I remember looking at the W&B for a Malibu and thinking that it was a very nice two person airplane.

Yep. Super Turdmobile, unless you're mission is either really short (why you'd want a turbocharged, pressurized plane is beyond me) or really light.

Unless you need known ice or 6 seats, Mooney makes the most efficient singles. Lots of choices in your price range. You could have all the fancy whizz bang avionics and air conditioning for the price of your 340. Normally aspirated will always be cheaper to operate if you don't need to go high.

 

[JimG]

Thanks guys

I know 3 guys who have had to dead-stick a Malibu...are your glider skills current?

Not since I dead sticked a 172 (to an airport fortunately) about 18 years ago.

The engine problems in the Malibu have been a concern, as well as general mx problems that I read about, but every airplane has that risk. I just got the 340 in top condition after a year of replacing and rebuilding (new engines, props, avionics, alternators, vacuum pump) and it hasn't cost me a dime in mx since.

It's just more aiplane (hangar, insurance, fuel) than Il need anymore.

As far as Mooneys and normally aspirated....I've got 3 kids (9-17y/o) and fly out of high altitude airports and cross over alot of high terrain. MEA's of 12000 are common around here, and a few that I use are higher than that.

 

[Vector4fun]

Just a suggestion;


http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=93703&return_url=/i.aso3/search.jspyyyyyiaso3sid=1xxxxxtypeid=1xxxxxsearchid=6760989xxxxxregionid=-1xxxxxtypeid=1xxxxxmmgid=27xxxxxmodelgroup=truexxxxxsearchid=6760989xxxxxregionid=-1

 

[FlyingToIST]

Just a suggestion;


http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=93703&return_url=/i.aso3/search.jspyyyyyiaso3sid=1xxxxxtypeid=1xxxxxsearchid=6760989xxxxxregionid=-1xxxxxtypeid=1xxxxxmmgid=27xxxxxmodelgroup=truexxxxxsearchid=6760989xxxxxregionid=-1

I guess that is an old picture. Squawking 1200 in HEF is something that you don't want to mess with these days.

 

[pilotmiketx]

As far as Mooneys and normally aspirated....I've got 3 kids (9-17y/o) and fly out of high altitude airports and cross over alot of high terrain. MEA's of 12000 are common around here, and a few that I use are higher than that.

Turbo Saratoga. More plane than a Mooney, less than a Malibu. Good reliable engine and simple systems. T-206 is good, but speed challenged.

 

[GoingHot]

I know 3 guys who have had to dead-stick a Malibu...are your glider skills current?
David

What's the deal with the Malibu and engine problems? It has the same basic engine as a Cessna 414 or Beech V35, (Continental TSIO-520). Those aircraft don't seem to have as many engine problems? Or do they?

 

[erj-145mech]

Piper is trying to extract too much energy from the TSIO-520, with two turbo's and two intercoolers pumping up the pressures.

 

[gfvalvo]

Piper is trying to extract too much energy from the TSIO-520....

Too much power.

 

[seethru]

Too much power.

Yes, that's been our feeling about the Malibus. They have the exact same engine as our Saratoga, only as mentioned earlier it has twin turbochargers. Trying to squeeze every ounce of energy out of a power plant.

One hitch with the Bonanza is lack of pressurization.

 

[Lead Sled]

20 years ago, I flew a P210 quite a bit. It had its quirks, but still a pretty impressive airplane. A Turbo 210 is still tough to beat when it comes to all around value. You'll have several good types to choose from.

'Sled

 

[livin'thesim]

Funny. I know of three guys who traded up to twins after dead-sticking their malibus/mirages in. I would rather fly a Skylane or a Saratoga. I would quit flying before I would fly one of those things regularly.

 

[chriskcmo]

Look at a Meridian. Same airframe as a Mirage. Different wing and a PT6 make the thing a hot rod. Flew one yesterday and it was a blast.

 

[Lead Sled]

Look at a Meridian. Same airframe as a Mirage. Different wing and a PT6 make the thing a hot rod. Flew one yesterday and it was a blast.

What an excellent idea! The guy wants to cut costs by trading down from a quarter million dollar C340 to a million dollar + turbine. Makes perfect sense to me.

'Sled

 

[gfvalvo]

What an excellent idea! The guy wants to cut costs by trading down from a quarter million dollar C340 to a million dollar + turbine. Makes perfect sense to me.

'Sled

... great useful load too, with full fuel you can carry two people and a brown-bag lunch.

 

[JimG]

What an excellent idea! The guy wants to cut costs by trading down from a quarter million dollar C340 to a million dollar + turbine. Makes perfect sense to me.

'Sled

LOL...

As long as we're dreaming....would a TBM700 be considered a trade down?

I'd much rather fly one of those than an Meridian....


Someone posted the downside of the Bonanza is no pressurization....

That's the only reason I thought of the Malibu, and why I bought this 340 over a 310 that was available at the same time.

They were both about the same price, but I went with the comfort of not having a tube up my nose anymore.

Otherwise, the Bonanza fits almost everything we want.

 

[bigD]

Pressurized piston singles have never seemed like a good deal to me. If you really need to be pressurized, I'd be more inclined to bite the bullet and stick with the 340.

 

[Lead Sled]

LOL...

As long as we're dreaming....would a TBM700 be considered a trade down?

I'd much rather fly one of those than an Meridian....


Someone posted the downside of the Bonanza is no pressurization....

That's the only reason I thought of the Malibu, and why I bought this 340 over a 310 that was available at the same time.

They were both about the same price, but I went with the comfort of not having a tube up my nose anymore.

Otherwise, the Bonanza fits almost everything we want.

You really ought to at least take a ride in a P210 before you make your final decision. It really wasn't that bad of an airplane and, at the time, I didn't think I'd like it. They're a lot of bang for the buck IF you need that type of performance capability want to be free of the nose hose. The earlier models are still reasonably reliable and, even though they aren't quite as fast as a Malibu, they can still haul a respectable load a reasonable distance at a pretty good speed. The one I flew had boots and airconditioning. I think that they can be bought for well under $200K.

Personally, I've never thought much of an A36. Six seats and no baggage. The Lance / Saratoga or a 210 give you 6 usable seats and a place to put some bags.

Now, if it were me and money were no object, I'd find me a nice T-38 (it's just the wife and I). Enough range to non-stop it to were the kids and grandkids live and mach 1+. Yee haw!

 

[FN FAL]

What an excellent idea! The guy wants to cut costs by trading down from a quarter million dollar C340 to a million dollar + turbine. Makes perfect sense to me.

'Sled

Actually, if this guy has some professional friends that need the same amount of aircraft, they could form a flying club and enjoy a lot of benefit from a TBM 700 by sharing costs. It works and it happens all the time.

 

[pilotmiketx]

... great useful load too, with full fuel you can carry two people and a brown-bag lunch.

There's no way you could carry your SpongeBob lunchbox. And you have to leave your fruit rollups at home.

 

[SpyFlysDOTs]

I've got a couple thousand hours in a C340, but only a few in a Malibu. Personally, I'd never be able to get comfortable in the Malibu or Mirage with their history of engine issues. The Bonanza or (if you didn't need the 5th and 6th seat) even a Mooney 251 or Bravo would get you close to C340 speeds at about 1/3 the overall cost and give you nearly the same capabilities that you have now.

I have flown with a pilot who had a couple of thousand Malibu hrs and lived through 4, count em Four engine failures.
Any questions?

 

[Mickey]

The Malibu is a very nice airplane. I have one friend who flew more than 3000 hours in his. He didn't make it to TBO the first time, but he wasn't the only one flying it. After being overhauled he made it to TBO, but he was the only person flying it and he payed attention to temps. and planned his descents. There are some Malibus that have the 550 in them and they are supposed to be "better." The Mirage uses the Lyc.540. I think that started in 1989 or so. Two of my friends have these. One switched from an BE33 and the other switched from an Ovation. Both of them are extremely happy. It's an easier plane to fly than the Ovation and quite comfortable. I hav e to run now so, more later..

The engine issues have been blown out of proportion by hype. Study the numbers and they aren't bad at all. I think C210s have more engine outs.

Take care.

 

[Lead Sled]

I have flown with a pilot who had a couple of thousand Malibu hrs and lived through 4, count em Four engine failures.
Any questions?

One can happen to anyone, anytime, in anything. Two, well unless there were some very extenuating circumstances, that would be it for me with that particular engine/airframe combination. Four in 2000 hours! At that point, I would question your friend's judgment.

'Sled

 

[SpyFlysDOTs]

4000 hrs and 4 engine failures, isnt blown out of proportion.

(cant remember if it was 2000 or 4000 hrs, thinking it was 4000 hrs, he once told me he had more time in the malibu than any other pilot..now flys a Citation.)

Took a testflight in a jetProp a couple years ago, it was a rocketship!
Now, where is that spare million, where is my wallet?

 

[SpyFlysDOTs]

One can happen to anyone, anytime, in anything. Two, well unless there were some very extenuating circumstances, that would be it for me with that particular engine/airframe combination. Four in 2000 hours! At that point, I would question your friend's judgment.

'Sled

How so?
What is faulty with his judgement, to keep flying a plane with so many engine failures?
Does the fact he has experienced four engine failures indicitive of a failure of judgement of any pilot, or a reflection on the engine?

 

[A Squared]

... great useful load too, with full fuel you can carry two people and a brown-bag lunch.

Hmmm sounds about right for a well designed airplane. For maximum utility you would want your fuel capacity sized that way.

I don't know about the specifics of the meridian, but in general the idea that you should be able to "fill the tanks and fills the seats" is just foolish. For a given useful load, you have better flexibility if you can reach max gross weight with just yourself and full tanks. More fuel capacity is a waste, obviously, because a plane at max gross weight with no-one in it won't fly very far, and less fuel capacity limits your range when your cabin load is light.

There's a reason that very few g/a airplanes have the ability to carry full fuel with a max passenger load, and that is because the folks desiging the airplane have thought the problem through, instead of designing to match a silly platitude.

You want to "fill the tanks and fills the seats"?? Pull out the tanks and install smaller ones, then you can do that. Doesn't make sense when you put it that way, does it.

 

[Lead Sled]

How so?
What is faulty with his judgement, to keep flying a plane with so many engine failures?
Does the fact he has experienced four engine failures indicitive of a failure of judgement of any pilot, or a reflection on the engine?

You're kidding right? You honestly don't see the problem? Let's put it another way, would you let your wife or one of your kids, or perhaps your mother fly with him in that airplane?

Most pilots can, now days, expect to fly an entire career without the statistical probability of an engine failure. To have had four in a single airplane over a period of between 2,000 to 4,000 hours blow me away. There is something wrong there - either he's not telling the truth or there's something else going on. Either way, yes I'll question the judgement of a pilot that would subject himself and, more importantly, others to those kind of statistics.

'Sled