ShawnC
Skirts Will Rise
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bobbysamd
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Glider time
Sure, it does. It counts as glider and PIC. But, the preponderance of your time must be airplane. Show them too much glider time in your total and PIC and you'll be laughed at right out the door.
Your glider experience just might get you that job, and here's why. I knew an instructor at Riddle who was a glider pilot. He got an interview with Express I in Nashville. Turns out, the captain who interviewed him was also a glider pilot. They started talking and, well, the rest is history.
Sure, it does. It counts as glider and PIC. But, the preponderance of your time must be airplane. Show them too much glider time in your total and PIC and you'll be laughed at right out the door.
Your glider experience just might get you that job, and here's why. I knew an instructor at Riddle who was a glider pilot. He got an interview with Express I in Nashville. Turns out, the captain who interviewed him was also a glider pilot. They started talking and, well, the rest is history.
Shawn,
You're talking about several different kinds of "times." Yes, your glider experience counts toward total time; it is flight time, and is pilot time, and this is why in a different thread you were counseled to keep it all in one logbook.
Chances are that for a few token hours, nobody will care. If most of your experience is in a hot air balloonor glider and you're trying to represent it as flight experience for a job, it won't be looked upon favorably (any more than 2,500 hours of safety pilot time would be looked upon favorably). Include it with your totals, all in one logbook (don't make an interviewer add up totals from different logbooks).
Many firms discount certain types of flight time. This may include other categories or classes of aircraft other than airplanes. Generally flight engineer time is not considered (not always).
You're also referring to minimum times. If the airline states that 2,500 hours is a minimum experience requirement, chances are that their competitive minimums are closer to 5,000 hours (especially right now). You may be able to apply, but not to compete. (As one agency once told me; "Thanks for applying. You don't stand a chance, but it makes our stats look good. Thanks again!").
You may place in your logbook and count toward total time all times that comply with 14 CFR 61.51. You may place other times too, but these fall outside what will be considered acceptable, and those times won't help you at all. Put all your times in one log, separating it for category and class (and tows, as applicable), count it all for total time, and then break down the times on an application form as each company requires. There is not an industry standard for what a company may require; there are many methods and many companies, and a lot of them do it dfferently. Good luck!
You're talking about several different kinds of "times." Yes, your glider experience counts toward total time; it is flight time, and is pilot time, and this is why in a different thread you were counseled to keep it all in one logbook.
Chances are that for a few token hours, nobody will care. If most of your experience is in a hot air balloonor glider and you're trying to represent it as flight experience for a job, it won't be looked upon favorably (any more than 2,500 hours of safety pilot time would be looked upon favorably). Include it with your totals, all in one logbook (don't make an interviewer add up totals from different logbooks).
Many firms discount certain types of flight time. This may include other categories or classes of aircraft other than airplanes. Generally flight engineer time is not considered (not always).
You're also referring to minimum times. If the airline states that 2,500 hours is a minimum experience requirement, chances are that their competitive minimums are closer to 5,000 hours (especially right now). You may be able to apply, but not to compete. (As one agency once told me; "Thanks for applying. You don't stand a chance, but it makes our stats look good. Thanks again!").
You may place in your logbook and count toward total time all times that comply with 14 CFR 61.51. You may place other times too, but these fall outside what will be considered acceptable, and those times won't help you at all. Put all your times in one log, separating it for category and class (and tows, as applicable), count it all for total time, and then break down the times on an application form as each company requires. There is not an industry standard for what a company may require; there are many methods and many companies, and a lot of them do it dfferently. Good luck!
ShawnC
Skirts Will Rise
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Oh the Gimi Glider, never heard the full story on that thing, I might have to look it up for a good read.
Only in Canada can they run out of gas, at altitude.
I always wondering about logging shuttle time. I have heard several stories about shuttle pilots flying at our glider port.
I have always wondered does the pilot log just the landing or can he log the blast off too. What catagory would the blast off be considered? Obvious the landing would be glider.
Only in Canada can they run out of gas, at altitude.
I always wondering about logging shuttle time. I have heard several stories about shuttle pilots flying at our glider port.
I have always wondered does the pilot log just the landing or can he log the blast off too. What catagory would the blast off be considered? Obvious the landing would be glider.
Years ago we used to fly the shuttle astronauts to Moscow for whatever on the 727. I used to fly the KEF-Moscow part all the time. On the way back it was the FO's leg, since in the 727 it was always a matter of pride to go the flight idle and spool up at 500 feet and land-the perfect visual approach. We were at 410 and starting our decent to KEF, we had one of the astronauts on the JS. I told the FO that I would buy him a case of beer if he never touched the thrust levers until 500 feet. He being an old navy pilot took on the challenge. He threw out the gear at 800 feet stretching that glide for everything he could get, but he spooled up right at 500 feet on speed and got the case of beer. The best part was that the whole crew got to help him drink it. The astronaut offered to sign us all up for the shuttle, I guess that is as close as I will ever come to doing the real thing.
ShawnC
Skirts Will Rise
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Have you flown a glider yet? If you haven't and you are in the Orlando area, goto Seminole Lake. They are closed mondays but are open every other day. Be sure to call ahead though, they are very busy.
Their website is http://www.soarfl.com
They are the biggest on the east coast. And most of them do it for the fun of it, one of their tow pilots has over 11,000hrs and right now is completeing school for a 747 type rating. He says he will start flying cargo at night real soon.
Their website is http://www.soarfl.com
They are the biggest on the east coast. And most of them do it for the fun of it, one of their tow pilots has over 11,000hrs and right now is completeing school for a 747 type rating. He says he will start flying cargo at night real soon.
lighten up Avbug
My only commentary on this thread involves Avbug's idiotic career advice regarding minimums verses competitive times. If you meet minimums, you should apply. Period. Forget the pessimists who say you aren't 'competitive'. There is much more than total flight time that completes the illusive equation for hiring. Many of my former classmates and co-workers and I are young, with near minimums for our respective airlines...Southwest, Cotinental, AirTran, etc.
My only commentary on this thread involves Avbug's idiotic career advice regarding minimums verses competitive times. If you meet minimums, you should apply. Period. Forget the pessimists who say you aren't 'competitive'. There is much more than total flight time that completes the illusive equation for hiring. Many of my former classmates and co-workers and I are young, with near minimums for our respective airlines...Southwest, Cotinental, AirTran, etc.
Steady there, tough guy. I never advised a soul not to apply. I simply defined competitive minimums, vs. published minimums.
I gave constructive advice on arranging a logbook to benifit the origional poster in an interview, and offered the advice (correctly) that time in the glider may be counted for total time. Finally, I wished the poster good luck in his efforts.
Where did I offer idiotic advice? Watch yourself.
I gave constructive advice on arranging a logbook to benifit the origional poster in an interview, and offered the advice (correctly) that time in the glider may be counted for total time. Finally, I wished the poster good luck in his efforts.
Where did I offer idiotic advice? Watch yourself.
Avbug,
I went back and re-read your post, excellent advise and a very professional way to do it. Your statement about being competitive very true as to what is happening out there. Our company just dumped 70 pilots on the market of which the least had 4000 hours with 2000 transport cat. time, the most had well over 24,000 hours and excellent pilots. So I would concure that any statement that you made is very true and correct and far from idiotic. Way to fight back, I liked that.
I went back and re-read your post, excellent advise and a very professional way to do it. Your statement about being competitive very true as to what is happening out there. Our company just dumped 70 pilots on the market of which the least had 4000 hours with 2000 transport cat. time, the most had well over 24,000 hours and excellent pilots. So I would concure that any statement that you made is very true and correct and far from idiotic. Way to fight back, I liked that.
TurboS7,
Thanks. I should probably learn to keep my mouth shut and my fingers off a keyboard more; my life would probably have far less problems to solve. I think I tend to create my own.
Shawn, if you can find work flying, period, then go for it. Don't worry about what a potential employer for whom you're not yet working, will think. You're gaining experience in flight. All experience applies. Don't be too quick to subscribe to the "this is better than that" philosophy. Certainly multi engine turbojet experience might be a better boost to your career in terms of months and years, but never discount the lessons learned.
On a persona level, I began flying commercially right after high school, in the fields. I did ag work; crop dusting. Never was a kid more proud of what he did than was I; I was shocked to learn that others thought it was wasteful and cowboyish. It's not a highly respected segment of the industry, as I've come to learn. It's considered not only worthless time for an airline or corporate job, but almost detrimental in nature. If someone asks what you did for a living and you say "crop dusting," they look at you funny.
That said, given an opportunity, I would feel right at home and happy flying in the dirt and wheat and corn. Every bit as much as monkeying with avionics and thrust levers. When I flew ag, my soul was full, whereas right now I manage and follow proceedures. I love what I do now, I love what I did then. The point is very simple; do you love to fly gliders? You cannot eat love, but if you can make a living, however small, then do so. You will never come to regret the flying you do, and to hell with a world that would tell you otherwise.
It's your life. It's not going to hurt your career. I've certainly been told that my background isn't conducive to this job or that job. I'd rather not work for such a person or company anyhow. I've been told that lacking an education, I would be unable to have meaningful communication with the class of clientele catered to by a different employer. Coitus Interruptus to him, and to the equine upon which he trespassed the threshold.
You want to fly gliders? You fly them, and let no man, woman, or horse with a grudge tell you otherwise. The flight time and experience will make you a better pilot, and it does count toward total flight time. It isn't turbojet time, and it isn't multi engine time. It isn't necessarily career building time. It is a job, and there are many who have no job right now. If you can get one and hold it, then let no one disparage you. Be proud of what you can do, and let that pride show in how you do your job and what you take from it into your daily life.
Best of luck!
Thanks. I should probably learn to keep my mouth shut and my fingers off a keyboard more; my life would probably have far less problems to solve. I think I tend to create my own.
Shawn, if you can find work flying, period, then go for it. Don't worry about what a potential employer for whom you're not yet working, will think. You're gaining experience in flight. All experience applies. Don't be too quick to subscribe to the "this is better than that" philosophy. Certainly multi engine turbojet experience might be a better boost to your career in terms of months and years, but never discount the lessons learned.
On a persona level, I began flying commercially right after high school, in the fields. I did ag work; crop dusting. Never was a kid more proud of what he did than was I; I was shocked to learn that others thought it was wasteful and cowboyish. It's not a highly respected segment of the industry, as I've come to learn. It's considered not only worthless time for an airline or corporate job, but almost detrimental in nature. If someone asks what you did for a living and you say "crop dusting," they look at you funny.
That said, given an opportunity, I would feel right at home and happy flying in the dirt and wheat and corn. Every bit as much as monkeying with avionics and thrust levers. When I flew ag, my soul was full, whereas right now I manage and follow proceedures. I love what I do now, I love what I did then. The point is very simple; do you love to fly gliders? You cannot eat love, but if you can make a living, however small, then do so. You will never come to regret the flying you do, and to hell with a world that would tell you otherwise.
It's your life. It's not going to hurt your career. I've certainly been told that my background isn't conducive to this job or that job. I'd rather not work for such a person or company anyhow. I've been told that lacking an education, I would be unable to have meaningful communication with the class of clientele catered to by a different employer. Coitus Interruptus to him, and to the equine upon which he trespassed the threshold.
You want to fly gliders? You fly them, and let no man, woman, or horse with a grudge tell you otherwise. The flight time and experience will make you a better pilot, and it does count toward total flight time. It isn't turbojet time, and it isn't multi engine time. It isn't necessarily career building time. It is a job, and there are many who have no job right now. If you can get one and hold it, then let no one disparage you. Be proud of what you can do, and let that pride show in how you do your job and what you take from it into your daily life.
Best of luck!
A Squared
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Add me to the list of people that think 717driver was way out of line.
Avbug said nothing about not applying. He did point out the differnce between stated minimums and competitive minimums, an important concept for anyone thinking of an airline career. A perfect example is United. In the not too distant past, their stated minimums were something like 300 hours and a Commercial certificate. I don't recall that United was hiring too many 300 hour pilots.
I think that this would be an excellent time for 717driver to eat a little humble pie and apologize to Avbug for misreading his post.
regards
Avbug said nothing about not applying. He did point out the differnce between stated minimums and competitive minimums, an important concept for anyone thinking of an airline career. A perfect example is United. In the not too distant past, their stated minimums were something like 300 hours and a Commercial certificate. I don't recall that United was hiring too many 300 hour pilots.
I think that this would be an excellent time for 717driver to eat a little humble pie and apologize to Avbug for misreading his post.
regards
Shawn,
I second everything that avbug said. If you can fly gliders fly gliders and make a little money doing it go for it. Airline pilots will envy you and walk up to you and say "I wish I had your job." You have to stay in aviation because you love it, in order to love it you have to fall in love with it. For avbug it was crop dusting, a very respectable career in itself and real flying. For me it was flying out of little jungle airstrips in South America. Some where some how this business grabs your heart and that is what keeps you going during tough times. I have flown a glider a couple of times but I wish I was in a financial position to get my license and teach soaring, I would love it. But as life goes on so does the responsibility, I fly a 737-800 as captain, I push buttons, I like the airplane because of where it takes me, not for the thrill of flying, I miss that a lot. If I could get paid what I make now as a soaring instructor I would quit tomorrow and go do it, soaring is really where it is all at. When and if I ever retire I will by a little condo in Lake Tahoe and soar. I hear you can stay up all day there ridge soaring, just stay aloft and watch the world go by. Go for it and you will create memories that will stay with you the rest of your life. I don't know if you are married but you just might meet a beautiful young female tow pilot....that is usually the way it works. Take the job and and fall in love with this thing like the rest of us, we are a chosen few...........
I second everything that avbug said. If you can fly gliders fly gliders and make a little money doing it go for it. Airline pilots will envy you and walk up to you and say "I wish I had your job." You have to stay in aviation because you love it, in order to love it you have to fall in love with it. For avbug it was crop dusting, a very respectable career in itself and real flying. For me it was flying out of little jungle airstrips in South America. Some where some how this business grabs your heart and that is what keeps you going during tough times. I have flown a glider a couple of times but I wish I was in a financial position to get my license and teach soaring, I would love it. But as life goes on so does the responsibility, I fly a 737-800 as captain, I push buttons, I like the airplane because of where it takes me, not for the thrill of flying, I miss that a lot. If I could get paid what I make now as a soaring instructor I would quit tomorrow and go do it, soaring is really where it is all at. When and if I ever retire I will by a little condo in Lake Tahoe and soar. I hear you can stay up all day there ridge soaring, just stay aloft and watch the world go by. Go for it and you will create memories that will stay with you the rest of your life. I don't know if you are married but you just might meet a beautiful young female tow pilot....that is usually the way it works. Take the job and and fall in love with this thing like the rest of us, we are a chosen few...........
alright guys, sorry
I apologize. I hate hearing people say 'you aren't competitive if you have the minimums'. So many people are ill-advised not to apply for jobs for just that reason. But, I re-read your post and I think I overreacted. I'll stop typing so I can remove my foot from my mouth...so to speak.
I apologize. I hate hearing people say 'you aren't competitive if you have the minimums'. So many people are ill-advised not to apply for jobs for just that reason. But, I re-read your post and I think I overreacted. I'll stop typing so I can remove my foot from my mouth...so to speak.
j41driver
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Gimli Glider
This was actually a 767 not a 757. Ran out of fuel since it was underfueled due to confusion between pounds and kilograms. Here is a link to the story:
http://www.frontier.net/~wadenelson/successstories/gimli.html
This was actually a 767 not a 757. Ran out of fuel since it was underfueled due to confusion between pounds and kilograms. Here is a link to the story:
http://www.frontier.net/~wadenelson/successstories/gimli.html
Timebuilder
Entrepreneur
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bobbysamd
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Paid glider time
I'd say that any legitimate paid time is a plus. You still want to show primarily airplane time, but most people won't sniff their noses at you if you have a lot of paid glider time.
I have a friend who got fired from a job and couldn't find an aviation job for a couple of years. He worked at all kinds of non-aviation jobs, security guard, selling cars, etc. He was a glider instructor and heard about a glider instructor job. So, he packed up everything and took the job. He was able to work himself into an airplane instructor job with Lufthansa and at IFTA. Then he got on flying single-turbine freight, and, recently got on with EJA.
I agree with other opinions about applying, if you aren't competitive. It never hurts to apply. Your odds improve with the more stuff you sent out. Send stuff to the regionals or wherever as you approach their mins. Fill out an app. Update as you build time. Eventually, you'll be called.
I'd say that any legitimate paid time is a plus. You still want to show primarily airplane time, but most people won't sniff their noses at you if you have a lot of paid glider time.
I have a friend who got fired from a job and couldn't find an aviation job for a couple of years. He worked at all kinds of non-aviation jobs, security guard, selling cars, etc. He was a glider instructor and heard about a glider instructor job. So, he packed up everything and took the job. He was able to work himself into an airplane instructor job with Lufthansa and at IFTA. Then he got on flying single-turbine freight, and, recently got on with EJA.
I agree with other opinions about applying, if you aren't competitive. It never hurts to apply. Your odds improve with the more stuff you sent out. Send stuff to the regionals or wherever as you approach their mins. Fill out an app. Update as you build time. Eventually, you'll be called.
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