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Too good to be true?

CaptBuzzard

I'm back!
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Well two weeks ago today I was offered a job with a 135 operator. I rushed up for an interview and rushed back up a couple of days later for ground school. I had to take unpaid days off at my current job. I instruct and work for a major airline on the ramp. I have been in contact with the chief pilot of this company and this week I thought I would be doing the flight training. Well, here comes the twist. I have worked my a$$ off to get to where I am today only to be assigned a relief pilot position. I know there are some of you out there that would be thrilled to have even a relief position. Basically I was led on to believe I would have a full time run. I would more than likely take the job if I could afford it. My instructing has been very minimal due to lack of business. My ramp job that I have had for six years is keeping my wife and I afloat. I would have to quit that job so I could be on call with the 135 company. I would not have a set schedule and would at times fly only once a week, or have a line for two weeks. Can't do that with a part time job. I guess I am a fool. I got so excited about this just to be dissappointed once again. I'm still going to see what they expect me to do. If I quit my ramp job, I would have to work at least 10-14 days a month along with the not so busy instructing job to even make ends meet. Since there is no guarantee of how many days I would fly, and since I would only be getting paid for the days I fly, this doesn't seem reasonable at all. I am still paying off my flying debt. I'm 27 years old and I didn't come this far for a part time job. It's a good thing that I still have my two current jobs and didn't quit. I wasn't going to quit there until I was 100% sure I would be flying full time.

Well, sorry for being so long. This just wasn't the happiest day of my life. I still have it pretty good, but it would have been better if it had worked out the way I believed it would. Good luck to everyone who is looking for that good job.

P.S. don't quit your current job until you know things are going to work out. I'm glad I didn't


See Ya,
Captbuzzard
 

TXflyer

Member
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8000+
Quit flying, and go to law school. $125,000 a year at age 26 is a much better deal for me than $14,000 a year instructing ham-handed morons. Now I have more money than I know what to do with, and I can buy my own plane.
 

CaptBuzzard

I'm back!
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Posts
145
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2000
I wish I could.
 

AZaviator

El Capitan
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Quit flying, and go to law school. $125,000 a year at age 26 is a much better deal for me than $14,000 a year instructing ham-handed morons. Now I have more money than I know what to do with, and I can buy my own plane.

So, you got your ATP rating, 737 type, and over 8,000hrs before the age of 26, decided to quit flying, went to law school to become a lawyer, and are now making over $125k a year?

Care to explain this one more in depth????:rolleyes:
 

TXflyer

Member
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8000+
Yes the claimed 8000 hours is obviously BS, I was just kiddin when I wrote that...I voluntarily washed out of 737 school to go to law school and am now making more money that I know what to do with. Buying my own plane next month, a twin Cessna.
 

TXflyer

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P.S. Go Boilermakers! My best friend's hot sister was an Alpha Chi Omega there...
 

TXflyer

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Posts
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Yeah "funny"...you know what else is "funny"? Making $125000 a year at age 26 and buying my own plane while you cash in your food stamps.
 

bobbysamd

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Law school v. Flying

I've kind of been on both sides of the desk. There are a few similarities to the legal profession and aviation.

There are entry-level attorney positions that pay six figures. A few big-name firms in Denver pay that kind of bread to new associates; however, there aren't too many jobs like those available and you have to graduate virtually at the top of your class. Neither I or my wife, who has been a law librarian for twenty-eight years, can believe these outrageous salaries for first-year associates.

Although you don't have a Kit Darby proclaiming a lawyer shortage, the similarity to aviation is you have more people in the middle or end of the bell curve who are trying to get the few jobs available at lesser firms for far less money. The profession doesn't always absorb all these people. I know of licensed attorneys who work as paralegals (which makes it tough for someone like me to find work; there is no paralegal shortage, either). I knew of one licensed attorney who was working in the fileroom of my wife's firm. She needed that job to make ends meet with her family and she would never be considered for an attorney position with my wife's lawfirm. She left the fileroom for a job at a smaller firm doing miscellaneous duties. She hoped to get her chance as a lawyer; last I heard this gal had receptionist added to her duties!

Also, don't forget, law school isn't cheap. Just like other professions, you might graduate with a major debt to pay off.

Frankly, if it were me, at age 27 I'd give aviation a few more years before hanging up the helmet and goggles. If you were offered one 135 job, someone must have thought that you were qualified and so will someone else. Also, consider what you would enjoy more. Law can be extremely interesting, depending on the specialty. But, you can find yourself putting in countless hours cooped up in an office with dozens of urgent deadlines all screaming for your attention, not to mention irate clients and d*ckhead insurance adjusters and opposing counsel. When trial comes, you spend hours and hours preparing, worrying and going crazy. Bottom line: Flying is fun and you're not cooped up in an office all day.

I realize that I am a paralegal and not an attorney. But, I see it every day with attorneys I work with. I have to deal with much of the same things as they do. Just a little food for thought.
 
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FL000

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Don't get me wrong. Money is nice and all, but I can't think of anything more dreadful than waking up every morning and having to go practice law for a living. If that's for you, great. Flying obviously wasn't.
 

bobbysamd

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Practicing law v. Flying

It isn't that bad, but it certainly isn't flying.

There are some extremely interesting (to me) areas of law where you really can help people and perform a public service. For example, Workers' Comp law. Workers' Compensation is a very difficult system through which to navigate. Trying to obtain justice through W.C. is something like preparing your own tax return.

Employment law is another good area. People are hosed by employers all the time, from not getting unemployment benefits because the employer lied about why the worker was terminated to retaliatory discharge to slander during reference checks.

Don't forget about aviation law. Having a good aviation attorney available is nice when the FAA approaches you, tells you it's here to help you, and demands to see your logbook.

P.I. law has its rewards in terms of public service. Our firm had a case where a well-known insurance company belittled our client's claim of permanent injuries after her auto accident. We took it to court and got her justice, in terms of a $1.5 meg judgment. This case was unusual; most of our cases are very small in comparison. But, you need the muscle of an attorney, to get insurance companies to deal with you fairly in this day and age.

Just the same, it certainly isn't flying.
 

BoxFlyr

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hey bobby, don't paralegals do most of the work and the lawyers make most of the money?
 

ExAF

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Lawers

What's brown and black and looks good on a lawer?

Ans: A doberman pinscher.

I know, I know...there's a million lawer jokes out there. I just couldn't resist. Cheers.
 

MetroSheriff

Hittin' the road...
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TXflyer said:
Yeah "funny"...you know what else is "funny"? Making $125000 a year at age 26 and buying my own plane while you cash in your food stamps.


You know what else is funny? YOU. Grow up. Take some of the imaginary $$$ and go buy yourself some maturity. With an attitude like your's, we'll see you and your twin Cessna on the next A&E special.
 

V-1

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CaptBuzzard,

Sorry to hear about your new "job" offer. Changing jobs in this industry is a gamble, particularly when you're in the early stages of your career. I've never been involved in any other industry where H.R. promises so much during the interview, then delivers so little after you've committed.

Although I don't know the details of your present situation, I would suggest holding out a bit for something better. After making every sacrifice you can justify (giving up cable t.v., resigning yourself to eat biscuits and ramen noodles for another year, living with three or four other people in a crashpad, etc.) you should still expect to earn enough to pay your bills. Notice I didn't add your marriage to the list of things to sacrifice.

It appears some segments of the industry, particularly the regionals, are starting to experience some growth again. This will help to open up a few more 135 jobs and decrease the leverage management has over pilot wages/quality of life issues a little. It's unfortunate some managers don't understand or care that if they expect you to be on call 24/7, you have to earn enough to live on.

Have you considered talking to your potential employer and explaining your situation? Tell them what you need from them in order to accept the position. Consider volunteering to help out in other areas of the company (working line service, helping the maintenance dept., washing airplanes, etc) to make up the difference in salary until you're able to get a better schedule.

Make certain every time you get in the airplane you find ways to "earn" your salary. Single-pilot IFR operations, particularly scheduled freight, present many opportunities for a good pilot to (safely and legally) shave a few minutes here and there from each flight. Document these opportunities and share your accomplishments with management. You'll be on your way to more flying quickly if you can operate more efficiently than someone else. Don't be like some pilots I've worked with who'd regularly fly instrument approaches in VFR conditions for no reason other than to "pad" their logbooks.

Remember that sometimes the best move is no move.

Best Wishes
 

bobbysamd

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Paralegal work

I think it depends on the office. Where I am now, I prepare a lot of forms and materials. I spend a lot of time managing deadlines, filing, reviewing and analyzing medical records and writing demand letters to insurance companies. I do all my own support work. Of course, my attorney reviews all my work and revises as necessary. I draft a few pleadings for the court from time to time, all of which, of course, are reviewed before filing. He spends a great deal of time seeing clients, negotiating, strategizing and working up more complex materials. I spend a great deal of time scheduling various events, such as conferences, trials and hearings. That can be a real pain in the a$$, sometimes, trying to get several attorneys' calendars to conform. I cannot give legal advice. For trials, my attorney prefers to do most of the trial prep, including scheduling testimony and lining up experts; not that he doesn't think I can't do it but because it helps him bone up on every little fact; and, if something is missed, it's on him and not me. I am paid fairly where I work now according to the market and my experience, but it is not what the attorneys make.

In my last office, I was indeed doing the bulk of the work. Mostly, the main shareholder saw clients and approved work. I spent a lot of time dealing with clients and nearly all of the written product. Also, getting clients to replenish their retainers, i.e. collecting bills, which, I believe, violates the ethical rules. I did a lot of work that she said was first-year associate work. A lot of that work was extremely difficult and, I am sure, would have been easier had I been a lawyer. I can assure you that I wasn't paid first-year associate's wages at that firm. :rolleyes:

It depends on the office. Some paralegals do attorneys' work. Others are nothing more than glorified secretaries.
 
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FL000

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Bobby,

I should have made it clear that my prior comment was not directed at you, lest you think it was. It was more at those who think money will buy them satisfaction in life. It doesn't.
 

hyper

We got "change" alright.
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"Yeah "funny"...you know what else is "funny"? Making $125000 a year at age 26 and buying my own plane while you cash in your food stamps."

Yea but, you're still a lawyer and I can always get a better job

;)


Captbuzzard,

I'll second staying with what you have. Does your ramp job provide medical for you and your family also? That's a BIG consideration. More than likely, what's to happen is you'll hang out 90% percent of the time making someone else happy that you are there to back up any unforseen interruptions in the schedule. In the mean time, you're getting paid squat and maybe logging 20 hrs a month. I've heard too many of my buddies complaining that are in the exact same spot. Just my opinion.
 

flx757

I gotta have more cowbell
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TXflyer said:
Yes the claimed 8000 hours is obviously BS, I was just kiddin when I wrote that...I voluntarily washed out of 737 school to go to law school and am now making more money that I know what to do with. Buying my own plane next month, a twin Cessna.

I think everything you say is BS. I think you're just some 14 yr-old kid playing on the computer before the good cartoons come on. At least that's how your posts sound. Like others have suggested..get some maturity. Until then, go bother someone else. You have nothing to contribute to this board.
 

Checks

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Buzzard,

Are you talking about a job with Airnet? If so then they will pay you full salary to sit on reserve. If not I would still take the job and flight instruct on the side as much as possible. If you want to be a pilot then be a pilot. If you want to be a ground guy then be a ground guy. Being married myself I know that isnt always that simple but you want to position yourself for the next wave in hiring.


What do you call 1000 dead lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?

A good start!!!
 
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