If they have been saving, investing, and not running up huge credit card debt, then they have been doing great the past 5 years. However, go swing by the local Best Buy, mall, Red Lobster, or Olive Garden and you'll see that many haven't been doing this. You could give everyone a year off of taxes and it would most likely get thrown away versus saving for the future.
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Today's Wallstreet Journal, page B3...Union Strong
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If they have been saving, investing, and not running up huge credit card debt, then they have been doing great the past 5 years. However, go swing by the local Best Buy, mall, Red Lobster, or Olive Garden and you'll see that many haven't been doing this. You could give everyone a year off of taxes and it would most likely get thrown away versus saving for the future.
JustPlaneTruth
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Speaking of revisionist history, it is well known that Henry Ford was an anti-Semite and sponsored the anti-Semitic publishing in the Dearborn Independent. Others who read the works would go on to commit on a mass level some of the most heinous crimes possible against other human beings.
In any case, Henry Ford is not generally considered to be a Robber Baron so not sure of the point of bringing him into the debate.
The answer to the question is no. Ford implemented what was already in play and had been fought for by labor dating back to the early 1800s in other parts of the world. The Industrial Revolution in Europe lead to the 40 hour work week. Miners in this country were already fighting hard for 40 hours, safer working conditions, and humanistic job rules and pay long before Ford came into the picture.
Who said anything about George Soros? But now that you mention him, he was a Hungarian Jew who escaped the Nazis (some of whom were inspired by the writings in the Dearborn Independent) in WWII and went on to be a very "successful" business man. Love to hear the dinner conversation between George Soros and Henry Ford.
acaTerry
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So just where is the "saving for the future" coming from taxing us? You know darned well that you and I will never see a dime of the SSI we are paying into. Why do you left wing nutjobs never expect the illegals and bums to work hard and save, but you have no problem telling us that we who work have no right to decide how we spend our money that we earn? I'll tell you why, so you can take it from us, give it to all those squatters, and then make yourselves look like the good guy and keep those votes coming. Democrats are always willing to give away what is not theirs. Demonize the worker and praise the sloth. Punish someone for working hard and doing something, and reward the lazy and illegal. You guys just kill me.
pilotyip
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Henry Ford didn't really write those article, he was not writer, he had a editor write them for him, but he approved of the articles. But he did his job of destroying hte Nazis by building a factory at Willow Run (KYIP) that would produce a 4 engine B-24 Bomber an hour. Ford was a simple man, who lived modestly, and he let great mechanics bring innovation to his comany.. The gaints of the industry in Sorensen and Knudsen pushed Ford to the forefront.
jetlag7
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These topics have been discussed ad nauseam on the NJASAP board....
ghostrider64
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GlorifiedCabbie
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Gwiz
that explains this post
but this ad was geared was part of negotiations moving forward
just as pilots have been told they must give back in all areas of the contract
now the pilots fight back and make the message clear for all to see
I'm just curious why the Wall Street Journal. I can't figure out which WSJ readers would help us fight management.
GlorifiedCabbie
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realityman
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Really?
This has to be spelled out for you?
It isn't about getting anyone "on our side". It's about publicly embarrassing JH, and WB too. It's one of the ways we put pressure on them. Shine a little light on their shenanigans.
Whether our clients sympathize or not is irrelevant. I'm sure JH, and possibly WB, don't want their tactics put on display to the public. It's all about ego. WB likes to be portrayed as a Dilly Bar-eating kindly old man who is upset that his secretary pays more in taxes than he does. I'll bet my next year's salary that he doesn't want his true colors to be flown high on the flagpole of public opinion (that of a mega-wealthy individual who wants to squeeze ever more money out of his hard working middle class employees).
And the most effective union busters work behind the scenes in the shadows. Almost nothing is more effective at heading off a lot of the union busting stupidity than shining a light on it for all to see.
Considering most of our clients are probably management types who hate unions I doubt this add will swing them to side with us. They really don't care. This add is simply meant to embarrass our management and expose JH's tactics to the public. A PR problem for them both.
And why the WSJ? Well, why not? It's pretty widely read. I'll bet there's a better chance the executives at Bombardier read the WSJ before the NYT or USAToday. I wonder if they're interested in knowing that JH is willing to screw them over in his quest to bust the union.
This also builds pressure by allowing our competition to point out to potential customers that Netjets has labor problems. This can be a threat to sales, shareholders, etc. Come on G4 quit playing into the hands of a management who would gladly undercut your salary, position, and career in order to put cash in their own pockets with no remorse towards how this affects you or your family.
JustPlaneTruth
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gutshotdraw
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THIS
I have repeatedly said that causing Uncle Warren embarrassment is the ONLY way things will change. Realityman is RIGHT ON with this post.
GlorifiedCabbie
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Whatever it was, its a small price to pay considering what the cost is in terms of the compensation to the pilot group.
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Ad nauseum is right. I never go on the ASAP board. it is juvenile and combative, and is not anonymous.
realityman
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Then, once again, you are mistaken.
There is plenty of good DISCUSSION on the NJASAP boards.
People have disagreements on opinions. It happens, whether on the NJASAP boards, here, or in person. Most people on the NJASAP boards disagree and discuss in a civil manner. There are only a handful of pilots there who take it over the line.
And best of all, the NJASAP boards have this thing called an "ignore" feature which allows you to selectively filter out those you find truly disagreeable. It's easy and can add a lot of good continuity to a discussion where one or two individuals may be getting out of hand.
As for it not being anonymous, so what? I don't know you, but if you can't/won't speak your mind on our closed union board just because it's not anonymous, then I don't have any confidence that you're going to stand with your fellow pilots in the fight we're presently engaged in.
Finally, the answers to the questions you ask are easily available on our union boards. To expect a more open exchange of info about what's going on with the union and our fight to be discussed on FI is, uh, fairly naive.
By the way, you absolutely don't have to make a single post on the union boards if you don't want to. If there's something you want to know, all you have to do is read. And you can make your presence "invisible" to others so no one knows you're on the boards. You can also PM someone if you have specific questions. In addition, there is an "Ask A Steward" section where you can ask questions and there is no debate or discussion allowed, only answers from stewards.
What's really laughable though is your statement above calling the union boards "juvenile and combative", while spending your time HERE where *cough* everyone discusses things in a mature and friendly fashion *cough*.
Sack up and go the union boards if you have any 'must know' questions. Sheesh! Can't believe this has to be explained to you.
JustPlaneTruth
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North of $100K for the half page ad. Hope NJASAP leadership achieved the expected outcome.
What say you all on this statement from the IBT....
http://www.sys-con.com/node/3219423
Capt. David Bourne said:
realityman
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Regarding your first statement, I think they did.
Have you heard about the new town hall meetings JH has just started at recurrent? He's coming in and reiterating that his "four pillars" are non-negotiable.
That's a clear sign we're getting to them. A lot of his tactics ar starting to smack of desperation.
We're definitely rattling his cage. That was the intention of the ad, and it appears to have worked.
Regarding the cost, no idea. But I think it was worth whatever we paid.
In regards to the Teamsters press release, no idea what to think yet, except to say I'm glad they're finally showinga spark of life.
gutshotdraw
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Although I think it is past time for the Teamsters who represent the FA's mechanics, and others at NetJets to make some waves, it's a touchy area calling out the CUSTOMERS for statements made by the COMPANY.
I don't believe the bulk of our clients worry about the COST of our service. They worry about the VALUE of our service. And the VALUE of NetJets service has been degraded by the short-sighted, penny wise-pound foolish policies the current EMT has been pursuing.
It's the COMPANY trying to make it an issue about COST in order to leverage their concessionary contract proposals. The customers are actually being caught in the middle here. We need to be careful on how we present our case so that the bulk of the customers realize it is the COMPANY that is destroying on-time performance, service quality, mantenance reliability, employee morale, and the NetJets brand.
It will take public relations and marketing expertise far beyond my abilities to walk that fine line. But it is something NJASAP and the Teamsters MUST do.
JustPlaneTruth
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I think that the JH still has a lot of tools left in his tool chest so I don't think desperation is in play yet. He is realizing that he is losing/lost the public relations campaign and trying to get a foothold with his silly Town Halls. No one listens to either the message or the messenger. I could not care less about his 4 pillars - it means nothing to me other than it is his line in the sand (until it gets too painful and he has to move it).
He lost the PR battle when (1) he and DS stole wages/benefits/working conditions from the non-bargaining group employees and (2) he alienated the moderates of the pilot group with his embarrassing concessionary offer that no one even considered a starting point. The Company unified the pilot group for free - thanks for that!
As has been pointed out by others and something I have maintained for a long time, the path to success for the pilots is through WB.
It is up to NJASAP and the IBT to not screw the current landscape up by pushing people back to the company side. There are concerns by moderates about the IBT communication having that effect.
ghostrider64
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Why would anonymity be important to you on a private message board?
How much did it cost the company for me to repo a fellow pilot home to avoid the after midnight then repo to another location for the pax? And they want me to take a cut so WB can look even more benevolent?
Maybe he is not allowed on the message board.
JustPlaneTruth
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Most of us have done that or something similar and no one justifies it. That point wins the argument they can afford the CBA and more. That point does not win the argument on the question of bang for the buck in dues spending on a WSJ ad and the path forward when more aggressive ads are needed and savings remaining in reserve.
Hogprint
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The last contract fight had quite a few of our owners (whom I assume are at least casual readers of the WSJ) that were instrumental in applied pressure. Stick around for this go around and you might just see it in action again!
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