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To Scab Or Not To Scab

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Thanks Boeing!
I do wander what Comair would say if they knew one of their Captains was making death threats on a public forum?

BTW Blade, before you even assume......I am a dues paying, non scabbing union member.

Glad to help........
 
Boeingman said:
35 you summed that up perfectly. Although I would guess you're wasting your time with that "doorknob".

P.S. Blade, if you want an extra battle star, I'd be happy to sell you mine.

no thanks.. as u said earlier..Another word for scab is opportunist in my book... its not in mine..
 
Well as a regional pilot and a member of ALPA I can say that unfortunately (as we all know) we will never be fairly represented when it comes to relations with mainline. But I'm also a realist and I know that we at the regional exist to feed mainline. Am I sorry that our mainline brothers and sisters are getting furloughed while our companies continue to get jets and hire? Yes. Am I a supporter of a one-list...well I'm still not sure. But I do know this, ALPA exists at our regional level so we wont be shafted by our own management. I've been a victim of a strike and 2 furloughs. ALPA was kind to me when I was on the street. I also have read "Flying the Line" and I will always support the union. Those of you that are thinking of scabbing even if it means putting food on your childrens plates will be sorry in the long run. I know i'm stepping on a soapbox (a very low-paid regional soapbox at that)but we can't forget what the pilots of years ago and even in the second half of the 20th century have done to make this career (and union) what it is today. Do I want to stay at the regional level? Well that depends. Will I be able to make a decent career and be able to support myself and my eventual family? Then I can be happy flying for a regional. I have dreams of wearing Brown one day but that doesnt mean that I wont stop trying to make my company better for those that will be coming up after me. And I also know that even though, I'm paid p-nuts, I'm still **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** lucky to be where I am.

I'm not that familiar with what's going on at Mesa with the Freedom air situation, but I do hope that it's not going to be an airline flown by scabs. We will never peacefully co-exist with the mainline but I do wish that there would be more combined MEC/LEC meetings with the mainline and their regional counterparts just so that we can both see 'both sides of the fence' and try to make relations better. DON'T SCAB!

Rook
600' AGL Autopilot on.
'WHEW!'
(Putting on my flame-retardant suit)
p.s. someone explain the Mesa/Freedom thing in terms that a Texas boy can understand.
 
Re: Scabs

Clownpilot said:
It's actually pretty simple.

Scabs always find a way to justify what they're doing.
People have a tendency to do that.
There are other jobs outside of aviation that will put food on the table. It can be done without taking another pilot's job.
I was involved in the hiring process before they shut it down and I will be involved again when things turn around. We never called a pilot for an interview that was a scab. When things start up again we won't call any, and if by some miracle or mistake we do, they won't get any further than the interview.
In other words, if you take a scab job it better be one you want to keep permanently cuz you're staying there.

I couldn't have said that better myself.
Sure, it's tough out there right now. Many of us have children, mortgages, car payments, etc... Who dosen't? There are other jobs (non-aviation related) out there to be had. If you loose your house and automobiles because your unemployment money ran out and you can't pay the bills, that's your own fault for letting it get that far. I have a family myself and lots of bills. I'm charging a $hitload onto my credit card and am working an "hourly job" to pay the bills, but you know what? I will NEVER scab to get a short term job with a company to pay the bills. Freedom undercuts airlines, and will be able to operate for the meantime, but will probably not be around for the long haul. But, if you scab, that will follow you around forever. I'm no fortune teller, but this industry WILL turn around, and like somebody else said, the interview boards are made up of regular joe line pilots and if you are a scab, you will not get an interview at a reputable company. I understand what everyone's saying about how frustrating it is if you're not flying...Heck, I'm not flying right now and it's killing me!!! However, when the airlines start hiring again, I will know in my heart that I will be considered wayyyyyyyy above the scabs. Maybe I should be encouraging people to be scabs so when it's hiring time again, I can be that much ahead. If you work for one of those aformentioned companies, cross a picket line, or scab in any way, you are shooting yourself in the foot.
P.s. In response to the comment on the next reply...There are other instances that will brand you a scab other than crossing the picket line.
 
Last edited:
As others have alluded to, there does seem to be alot of guys throwing the word "scab" about quite loosely.

Also, to all those offering up the advice not to scab...I didn't realize there were any companies on strike offering anyone the opportunity.
 
Just as I thought.......Blade went running!
Or perhaps his mom doesn't allow him to use the computer after 8:00pm!!! lol
 
Scabs

The definition of the word is not the important issue. The degradation suffered by the industry as a whole is the problem. If you go to work for Freedumb or Republik you are thereby lowering the wages management has to offer regional pilots. So you want to feed the kids, a city bus driver makes upwards of $50,000 first year, what does a Freedumb Captain make? Is there any comparison, regarding safety and responsibility, of flying a jet and driving a bus? It may not be a true "brotherhood", but think about the long term livelihood of our industry before you take the job. I truely understand the love of flying for a living, but how can you make a living flying if the kid at T-bell makes more money than you. Definitely don't cross a picket line, but is working for one of the aforementioned companies much different? No matter how you label it, it isn't going to help your family, your career, or "our" industry.
 
"Definitely don't cross a picket line, but is working for one of the aforementioned companies much different?"

Yes it is very different. ALPA isn't a victim of scabs, it's a victim of economics, and all they can do is threaten members of the same profession who are not members of the "brotherhood."

"Our MEC, who art in ALPA,
Financially be thy game.
Our mission won, my paycheck come,
but only for members, our dues paying bretheren.
Give us, this contract, our daily raise.
Forget those fights ending in losses,
and destroy those who chose not to join with us.
And lead us not into mediation,
but separate us with scope.
For mine is the money, the power and the glory.
Forever and Ever.
Meeting adjurned."

Like lemmings off a cliff.
 
bvt1151,

FYI - AA, SWA, AirTran, UPS and Airborne Express, to name a few, are not members of ALPA but are union companies. I don't see ALPA threatening those members of the same profession who are not members of the "brotherhood".

It sounds as though you are just another of those lemmings, just poised on a different cliff.
 
Semantics.

Kindly replace the word "ALPA" with whatever aviation union you prefer in my previous post.

In response to you lemming remark...
How can you call me a lemming when I go against the mainstream. Do you know what a lemming is?

Ask the air traffic controllers of 1981 about following a union off the cliff, or any former eastern pilot. Don't get me wrong, unions are a necessary deterrent to management, however there comes a point when we are no longer fighting for whats needed, and we cross into the realm of greed. That crossing happened years ago.

For a union to survive, there has to be an enemy. Unions only live on conflict. If things were always peachy, there would never be unions. In light of that, if there is no enemy, they create one: RJDC, Freedom, Republic. These are not a threat to your safety, or even your job security. The senior captains making $300k a year are more of a threat to your job security, yet they are the ones in union management. Certainly they wouldn't declare themselves the enemy.

But the unions tell us what to be enraged over, and we eat it up. Just because you live in the US (or whatever country you live in) doesn't mean you believe everything the government tells you. Same holds true for Union management. If you think that thinking for myself makes me a lemming, I seriously challenge your definition of the word.
 
bvt1151,

It's not semantics at all. I don't hear anything from my union telling me what to be "enraged" over. Nor do I hear too many enraged Southwest pilots on this board. You make general statements about "aviation unions" and they automatically apply to every company.

It's these generalities and assumptions, along with your cute little "ALPA Prayer", which lead to my lemmings conclusion. Your next post does little to change that. I see you included the RJDC as one of the "enemies" that the "unions" created. You obviously have an excellent grasp of that whole situation. Your "independent thinking" has been repeated time and again on these and other boards. I can tell from your profile you have much experience with airlines, both union and non-union. Oh, right then, that must be me. Never mind. Then you must have generated your independent thoughts based on what you hear and read. Fair enough.

I think most pilots learned to think for themselves long ago. I wouldn't be patting myself on the back too hard for that feat.

It's not really my style to engage in p!ssing matches on message boards, since that accomplishes nothing. So you may have the last word if you feel you must. Adios.
 
I agree that Alpa has its problems but do you think that without a strong union there would be any flying jobs that pay $200k plus. Would anybody be getting 14+ days off a month, retirement, jumpseats, etc. We suffer from an abundance of qualified pilots for a limited amount of jobs and in the absence of a strong trade union then we would be victims of supply and demmand. In other words the 777 captain at Delta would be lucky to break 100K and the Comair Crj captain would never break 100K because thousands of pilots would gladly do it for less. Alpa has its shortcomings but we are much better off with them. Read Flying the Line 1 & 2 to get a look at how it used to be without unions. Absolutely miserable work. My .02
 
B1900FO,
You bring up a good point. Unions are in direct conflict of supply and demand, which are the nature of economics. Eventually, unless the unions drastically change tactics, economics will snap back with bankrupcies and furloughs. We all know unions are necessary. Read my last post about the line pilot unions have crossed into. As far as your suggested reading, you listed an article found in a unions monthly magazine...come on!

flx757:

First of all, a pilot flying for Freedom is not my enemy. Second of all, I have nothing to do with Freedom, Republic or the RJDC, I just notice a trend. It all boils down to one thing. You don't want these pilots to be paid lass than you, because you want more money. I appreciate you allowing me the last word, and here it is:

Greed.
 
bvt1151 said:
You don't want these pilots to be paid lass than you, because you want more money. I appreciate you allowing me the last word, and here it is:

Greed.

I don't work for Mesa, Freedom, Republic, CHQ, et.al.,, but anyone that can't see the danger of alter-ego, non-union companies is definitely in the wrong business. That is, unless this is the type of company you are interested in flying for. It may be the only choice you have in the future, if this is allowed to go unchecked.

That quote above shows just how out of touch from reality you truly are, if you believe this situation is about union greed. But you are entitled to your opinion.

And to flx757, you don't see any enraged AS pilots here, either.;)
(Our MEC hasn't told us what to be enraged about, or pointed out the enemy, yet.) :rolleyes:

P.S. bvt, Flying The Line, Pts 1 & 2 is not an article in a unions monthly magazine. I suggest you do a little research.
 
BVT,

Just so you know Flying The Line is not an article. Flying the Line is a book about the piloting profession since its inception. It was written by a historian, believe his last name is Hopkins (could be wrong on that) and was Not put out by Alpa as union propoganda. It is just a historian's view on the airline industry and does a good job of illustrating how screwed we would all be if there wasn't an Alpa. On a side note I'm curious; how is a delta captain making 330K a threat to my job security? I am glad to know that there are guys making that kind of money because I want to be one of them some day. Airlines are cyclical and if you think the success of an airline is directly proportional to labor costs then why aren't Champion, National, ATA, Atlas, Polar, Sun Country, etc, etc ruling the skies? Delta has always paid pilots well and they are considered to be one of the strongest carriers finacially. What about Southwest? Those pilots can make nearly 200K flying a 737...That's right up there with what a ual captain makes, I'm sure it is more than a Ual 737 captain makes post concessions. Are these highly paid Southwest captains a threat to my job security? The threat to my job security is piss poor management and a government that is intent on taxing this industry into bankruptcy.
 

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