To all you college whiners

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Primarily to all you youngsters who think that just because Mommy and Daddy paid for you to get a 4 yr degree and ratings, Or that by taking a commission in the Armed forces, that
you must be entitled to some kind of major carrier "birth-right".

Rant all you want about how some obviously uneducated and undeserving person is sitting in "your" seat.(sky-dud 25) I've read this in several threads now. Consider the road some of us uneducated and undeserving people have travelled to get here.

4 years construction. 6years enlisted Army. Took my college money and went to a 121 flight school. 1800 hrs dual given. 2 yrs corporate F.O. doing every job associated with the position. about 1500 hrs driving skydivers. Another 1 and 1/2 yrs Air Ambulance. Now at 6 years in a regional.

Still think you're better qualified than me? Answer yes and you are truly lying to yourself. Want to see this industry turn around? Quit thinking that by graduating from "The Academy" that you're better than all of those around you. And that you're ready to take the left seat of that shiny jet, and that you'll go anywhere and undercut anyone to do it.

 

[check6]

To be honest with you, this topic has been beat to death, but. . .

Yes, I went to an aviation university.

No, I don't feel like anyone owes me anything.

Yes, you are more qualified than I am.

Yes, I do want to see this industry turn around.

So, if it's instant gratification you are looking for, there ya go.

 

[IAHERJ]

Deleted by IAHERJ

 

[BenderGonzales]

Essentially what they're saying is: If you went to Comair Academy.

#1. Lie about it. You learned from a farmer on a 2100 foot grass strip in an Aeronca Champ with no radios.

#2. If you have any ego whatsoever, make sure your wife/girlfriend beats it out of you before you get to the airport. Most people spent a lot more time paying dues than you did.

#3. If you wear sunglasses indoors, have anything but your natural hair-color on your head, or use school supplies as luggage -- reevaluate your appearance and learn to conform.

#4. If you have anything that says "Comair Academy" on it. Throw it away. Do not -- I can not emphasize this enough -- do NOT wear or carry any of your Comair academy souvenirs on line.

#5. If at all possible, spend a year flying freight in a high performance single or light-twin before you make the leap to the RJ. The real-world experience you will gain during that year is more valuable than you will ever imagine.

If all else fails, see #1.

 

[MarineGrunt]

deleted. explained later........

 

[check6]

I'm confused, who is the one whining? I guess the measure of a man is all about who paid for his college, right? Tool.

Good point. I have a friend who worked his a$$ off through college with no parental funding. His work has paid off.

 

[Mr Biggelsworth]

Will you be the father of my first born child?

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Don't blame the new FO's for what they have done. They don't know any better, taking a regional job at 17K is what it is. This is because of the people that came before him. The real battle is with a regional captain that moves from a 50 seat CRJ into the brand new 100 seat ERJ. New pilots don;t realize that they could be making $60000 a year. It's totally our fault for not educating them. Seriously, you think ERAU tells them how it is when they walk in the door.

 

[miles otoole]

Primarily to all you youngsters who think that just because Mommy and Daddy paid for you to get a 4 yr degree and ratings, Or that by taking a commission in the Armed forces, that
you must be entitled to some kind of major carrier "birth-right".

Rant all you want about how some obviously uneducated and undeserving person is sitting in "your" seat.(sky-dud 25) I've read this in several threads now. Consider the road some of us uneducated and undeserving people have travelled to get here.

4 years construction. 6years enlisted Army. Took my college money and went to a 121 flight school. 1800 hrs dual given. 2 yrs corporate F.O. doing every job associated with the position. about 1500 hrs driving skydivers. Another 1 and 1/2 yrs Air Ambulance. Now at 6 years in a regional.

Still think you're better qualified than me? Answer yes and you are truly lying to yourself. Want to see this industry turn around? Quit thinking that by graduating from "The Academy" that you're better than all of those around you. And that you're ready to take the left seat of that shiny jet, and that you'll go anywhere and undercut anyone to do it.

Unfortunately more in depth psychological exams aren't part of the annual medical exam.

 

[pilotyip]

prehaps there is something about having a college education before you become a pilot that I have overlooked. I know it has nothing to do with flying the airplane, but in certain cases it may have something to do with maturity.

 

[chickenwolf]

Waa freaking haa...... There will always be douche bags out there the fact that you can't deal with it and have to rant about it is pathetic. You must be a grown man by this point what gives???

Just deal with it.....

Sorry I wasted my time.....

 

[Superpilot92]

Don't blame the new FO's for what they have done. They don't know any better, taking a regional job at 17K is what it is. This is because of the people that came before him. The real battle is with a regional captain that moves from a 50 seat CRJ into the brand new 100 seat ERJ. New pilots don;t realize that they could be making $60000 a year. It's totally our fault for not educating them. Seriously, you think ERAU tells them how it is when they walk in the door.

Well said! If alpa would start showing up at flight schools and exposing the truth to new students then maybe some may be less excited about making 20k and supply and demand might change things. To many people being told you only work 12 days a month and bring home big money while traveling the world. But yet the pilot shortage is almost here? Sarcasm

 

[YourPilotFriend]

You can control supply and demand through scope clauses. Brand scope the airlines, and the profession is saved. Once that happens, there is no need to worry about 17K a year FO's.

 

[Superpilot92]

Or raise 121 mins to 135 mins and you pretty much wipe out PFT or buy your job type schools. Its already expensive now getting 500 hours at gulfstream academy could you imagine if the mins for a regional where 1200tt per FARs.

 

[Nancy Pryor]

Or raise 121 mins to 135 mins and you pretty much wipe out PFT or buy your job type schools. Its already expensive now getting 500 hours at gulfstream academy could you imagine if the mins for a regional where 1200tt per FARs.

Superpilot, I have been advocating that for some time. It baffles me why Part 135 requires 1200tt but Part 121 airline ops don't have a reasonable minimum for FO's. The FO position is not a trainee position (though it is in a way), an FO is expected to be able to command and complete the flight alone if necessary. Do you want your family in the hands of a 600 hour wonderstick (iPod, spiked hair, Raybans, backpack, scuffed shoes and snotty entitlement attitude optional) in an RJ if the CA is incapacitated somehow?

Ya know, just a few years ago (early to mid 1990's for example) the hiring mins for the regionals were a lot higher than they are right now, and funny thing was, the maturity level of many of the applicants was a lot higher too. Could this be because more dues had been paid, and fewer blow sunshine up your tailpipe pilot puppy mills were out there?

 

[MarineGrunt]

Or raise 121 mins to 135 mins and you pretty much wipe out PFT or buy your job type schools. Its already expensive now getting 500 hours at gulfstream academy could you imagine if the mins for a regional where 1200tt per FARs.

That would probably get rid of most of the PFT outfits, but would screw those trying to make it legitimately to the regionals. Otherwise, I think thats a great idea.

 

[G100driver]

The 1200TT is for PIC. The 135 world has 300 hour super F/O's as well.

 

[Nancy Pryor]

The 1200TT is for PIC. The 135 world has 300 hour super F/O's as well.

Good point. I still think a realistic minimum should be required for Part 121 FO's. Maybe 1200tt, or even better require an ATP. The advantages are more experienced junior FO's at the regionals, fewer (if any) PFT mills, and a reduced pilot (over)supply which will help raise or at least maintain the pay and QOL bars for everyone. As others have mentioned on this forum, other professions have reasonable barriers to entry, and for good reason.

 

[BoilerUP]

My goodness this sounds like Mtnjam from a year or so ago, whining about us aviation university grads that had our careers handed to us on a silver platter simply because our path was different (ie shorter) than his (or yours)....

You can control supply and demand through scope clauses. Brand scope the airlines, and the profession is saved. Once that happens, there is no need to worry about 17K a year FO's.

As if this weren't total flamebait...

Well said! If alpa would start showing up at flight schools and exposing the truth to new students then maybe some may be less excited about making 20k and supply and demand might change things.

Have you volunteered to your MEC or the national Education Committee to chair or work as a lead on this project? After all, "ALPA" includes all its members. You don't want to scare or intimidate upcoming pilots, but educating people on the reality of the job is vital to people having a fair understanding, not the Kit Darby selljob. I'm very glad so many alums have spoken to Purdue students and professors about the Go Jet issue...education is key, but each member has to make an effort for the initiative to be successful!

 

[flyer172r]

Imposing a 1200 or 1500 hour requirement for a 121 carrier would only mean potential new-hires would instruct for a few more months before they got hired.

 

[gkrangers]

To be honest with you, this topic has been beat to death, but. . .

Yes, I went to an aviation university.

No, I don't feel like anyone owes me anything.

Yes, you are more qualified than I am.

Yes, I do want to see this industry turn around.

So, if it's instant gratification you are looking for, there ya go.

Same goes for me.

Is the route of instructing for a year or two, followed by flying freight for a few years (Maybe PIC on the lear for Airnet for a couple thousand?), followed by a frac or "major" freight job an acceptable course of action?

I just want to make sure thats ok.

I'm not looking for some stupid 300TT bridge program to ASA...I wanna do things the way that'll benefit me the most as a person and a pilot.

The rats here at ERAU that persue this garbage are doing a disservice to everyone, including themselves.

 

[gkrangers]

Well said! If alpa would start showing up at flight schools and exposing the truth to new students then maybe some may be less excited about making 20k and supply and demand might change things. To many people being told you only work 12 days a month and bring home big money while traveling the world. But yet the pilot shortage is almost here? Sarcasm

I go to ERAU...and theres thousands of kids that just don't get it. I do my best to educate...and a few of them have seen the light which is reality. The rest think it matters to an airline that it says ERAU on their degree...

I'm skittish to say I go there cuz I get lumped in with them. It carries such a bad stigma.

 

[BlackPilot628]

I'm not going to apologizes to anyone about my parents being able to send me to college. I would only hope that I can afford to send my children to school when the time comes. It was always my responsibility to go to school and make good grades and my parents responsibility to go to work and support my brother and I (Family). I give them all the thanks in the world for getting us through school and 1/2 half of my graduate degree. The other half I've paid for. I did have to work and pay for my own car and apartment, things of that nature; but my education was always taken care of. We shouldn't have to apologizes for that. I'm no better then anyone else and I flew single pilot in a BE58 and PA31, hard IFR night and day. I got my first airline job with 1400TT and 500 Multi.
But, I don't think any less of those that got great internships and were hired by that company with 500-800 hours. They too earned their jobs during their 8 month internship and finishing up college.
With that said, There are some programs that are not good. Mesa Pilot Devlp. program. They're getting jobs flying CRJ's/E145's with 250 hours. That is a little to low.
I also agree with Superpilot, Students need to be educated on the industry.

 

[AerroMatt]

The rats here at ERAU that persue this garbage are doing a disservice to everyone, including themselves.

The rats at ERAU and all the other colleges are the faculty and administration that continue to sell Aviation as a great career opportunity. All they are doing is laughing their butts off while taking the money to the bank. They flood the aviation market with newbies while the promised pilot shortage never materializes.

More's the pity, many do come out of ERAU, NDSU etc with the chip on their shoulder which will guarentee they will have a tough time advancing until they realize that the aviation world owes them NOTHING, contrary to what they were taught at their alma maters.

 

[gkrangers]

The rats at ERAU and all the other colleges are the faculty and administration that continue to sell Aviation as a great career opportunity. All they are doing is laughing their butts off while taking the money to the bank. They flood the aviation market with newbies while the promised pilot shortage never materializes.

More's the pity, many do come out of ERAU, NDSU etc with the chip on their shoulder which will guarentee they will have a tough time advancing until they realize that the aviation world owes them NOTHING, contrary to what they were taught at their alma maters.

Agreed 100%. If only everyone read flightinfo, they would know the truth about aviation. There is nothing wrong with getting into the business...BUT you need to know what you are getting yourself into...

 

[Superpilot92]

Imposing a 1200 or 1500 hour requirement for a 121 carrier would only mean potential new-hires would instruct for a few more months before they got hired.

True but then those people would have to work for it and earn it, not buy it. If it was to expensive to buy your way in then alot of people wouldnt do it. Think about it people pay 50-100k to go to the pilot factories and get 600 multi hours and all your ratings. So you have your 600tt to apply to airlines. Well if the mins were 1200tt that would probably double the cost.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Marine grunt and all the who criticized my post- All I was doing was pointing out the immaturity of a few who think they're somehow more entitled, or that those who did not go to college really don't belong in an airplane. I also point out a few- not all, just a few who feel that their military flight time transcends above civilian time.

 

[gkrangers]

Marine grunt and all the who criticized my post- All I was doing was pointing out the immaturity of a few who think they're somehow more entitled, or that those who did not go to college really don't belong in an airplane. I also point out a few- not all, just a few who feel that their military flight time transcends above civilian time.

Understood. As a student AT a pilot factory...but not participating in the pilot factory program...I just feel like everyone in the business will snub their nose at me for no reason. Judging me because of a bunch of tools. Makes me defensive I guess.

 

[Superpilot92]

I'm not going to apologizes to anyone about my parents being able to send me to college. I would only hope that I can afford to send my children to school when the time comes. It was always my responsibility to go to school and make good grades and my parents responsibility to go to work and support my brother and I (Family). I give them all the thanks in the world for getting us through school and 1/2 half of my graduate degree. The other half I've paid for. I did have to work and pay for my own car and apartment, things of that nature; but my education was always taken care of. We shouldn't have to apologizes for that. I'm no better then anyone else and I flew single pilot in a BE58 and PA31, hard IFR night and day. I got my first airline job with 1400TT and 500 Multi.
But, I don't think any less of those that got great internships and were hired by that company with 500-800 hours. They too earned their jobs during their 8 month internship and finishing up college.
With that said, There are some programs that are not good. Mesa Pilot Devlp. program. They're getting jobs flying CRJ's/E145's with 250 hours. That is a little to low.
I also agree with Superpilot, Students need to be educated on the industry.

Your 100% correct. You worked for it. you were hired with over 12oott and i am sure you will agree you were much more confident and skillfull in your flying at 1400 tt then you where at 250 or 500 tt. Not saying 1200 is an incredible amount of flight time but much more qualified after flying some PIC time. We are talking about the Mesa programs and Allatp programs and Gulftream acadamy programs, etc. I know there are alot of good people that go into some of these programs just unaware of whats going on but that doesnt mean the programs are ok or good for the industry. Something just needs to be done to shut down some of these buy your job companies.

 

[Superpilot92]

Understood. As a student AT a pilot factory...but not participating in the pilot factory program...I just feel like everyone in the business will snub their nose at me for no reason. Judging me because of a bunch of tools. Makes me defensive I guess.

No one should snub their nose at you if you have a level head on you like it looks like you do. Just keep punching away. Just keep trying to point people in the right direction is all you can do.